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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dark and stormies all round! Bluestocking piss up

992 replies

QuentinSummers · 08/06/2018 23:05

A friendly place for feminist or general chit chat. Welcome all!

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11
CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 09/08/2018 22:30

Surely one of the donkeys is Owen?

FermatsTheorem · 09/08/2018 22:32

No please, don't call the poor donkey Owen.

FloralBunting · 09/08/2018 22:56

We could have a little Sanctimonious Morph model sitting on the shelf behind the bar? You know, in that pose where he's folding his arms indignantly and sticking his nose in the air, just before he turns to the onlookers and does a high-pitched whiny rant.

terryleather · 09/08/2018 23:04

Shall we have a flock of budgies all pecking at a mirror, I've got some suggestions for names but I've already been deleted once today...

Dark and stormies all round! Bluestocking piss up
Dark and stormies all round! Bluestocking piss up
BettyDuMonde · 09/08/2018 23:52

Some donkeys do indeed form ‘bonded pairs’.

The pairs are often platonic and same sex.

For some reason I just thought of Hinge and Bracket - a lot of 70s/80s/90s comedy would be denounced as unforgivably transphobic now, wouldn’t it?

ErrolTheDragon · 10/08/2018 09:33

Having just remembered the, er, display, casually performed by a donkey stallion as we sat on a bench eating a picnic halfway up Orrest Head once, I think our donkeys had better both also be female.

LighthouseSouth · 13/08/2018 00:11

Def female donkeys!

Three random thoughts

  1. when will identity politics go away?

  2. it's good to have a funny past with anecdotes that still crack you up 30 years later, even if tinged with the sadness of nostalgia

  3. we are def at the point of overpopulation where it gets rough but I guess we can stay here and eat crisps.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 15/08/2018 20:41

Okay. We can have elderly female companion donkeys.

Sorry for suggesting we call one of them Owen. I do like animals honest.

Nothing in a cage though eh? We'll just have to CONSTANTLY Maya Angelou at it Grin

LighthouseSouth · 17/08/2018 13:53

aw, I like that donkeys make friends.

one of my totally random questions, as I don't think it's being discussed anywhere else. Has anyone said what will happen to the House of Fraser pensions?

I used to think I'd start a campaign to make businesses ring fence money for staff but I'd just get told no one can run a big business like that. To my mind, if no one can run a business like that, we have to seriously rethink all the rules around big business.

UndercoverGC · 17/08/2018 21:15

A thing which really upsets me. What finally tipped me over to joining in on here.

There is nowhere I can talk about my lived experiences of having a female body and the shit society throws at people like me. I'm even scared about saying I have a female body. I've been called a TERF by other natal women when I've tried.

It is completely impossible for me to organise something marked as a women-only event. I've watched other people try desperately hard, being as 'inclusive' as possible, oh of course TW are welcome, and NB people, and queer people, and trans men, and eventually just anyone who isn't a cis man, and they still consistently get flamed, vilified, shut down for it.

I'm not even talking about 'Women's place' type meetings, or anything explicitly political - the whole point is just to talk about ourselves, our lives, the experiences we share from being born female in a misogynistic society, without being distracted by the wants and needs of people who don't understand.

I want to talk about the long-term effects of growing up in a society where my body determined what I was expected to do as an adult. Of trying to come to terms with adolescence whilst being surrounded by teenage boys and older men who see you as a target. Of the 'biological clock' and 'fertility cliff' when I've been brought up in a world which has told me from the day I was born that my role in life is to settle down with a man and raise children. I want to talk about the menopause, and going from 'sex object' to 'invisible'. I want to hear from older women who can pass on what they have learned. I want to hear from women who have made different choices to me, especially women who effectively disappear from a lot of public life when they take time out of paid work, or because they are trying to work and raise children, or care for older relatives, because their whole lives then family and society has just taken for granted that they will do so. I just want to talk to people like me to discuss the things we have in common, and the choices we have made shaped by the things we share.

I can't even organise a meeting to talk about local maternity and reproductive services, where only people who could be directly affected are allowed, so we can share our experiences freely and support each other. However I phrased it - 'potential gestational parents'? it would still be wrong for someone, which would put me in the TERF basket, which would make me scum and a valid target for anything.

I can't. I can't even talk about having a female body unless I add in all sorts of qualifications and sub-clauses.

I don't want to do any of these things because I hate trans people, or because I don't understand that life is also very difficult for many trans people. This has literally nothing to do with trans people. I don't mind if it helps them feel better about their bodies to use words which aren't the technical medical terms, as long as they understand that I need words to talk about my body and to discuss the things I have in common with other female bodies.

I just want to talk about the experience of living in a female body under patriarchy with other people who share that experience.

I dunno. My Mum said that in the 70s there were women's consciousness-raising parties where everyone tried looking at their cunt with a speculum and a mirror. I've talked to women who were at Greenham Common Peace Camp, and how free they felt just living without the pressure of men, and how they took that back into their lives afterwards and changed things. Sometimes I wish I could run away to a lesbian separatist commune and ditch men entirely, just to see what it would be like.

There isn't any space where I get to talk freely about my experiences of living in a female body, with people who understand. That's what the extreme TRAs (not even most trans people) have taken away from me, and they've been pushing the bubble wider and wider until they are advising Parliament on making new laws, so it is like this for everyone, forever.

Womaningreen · 17/08/2018 21:38

" Sometimes I wish I could run away to a lesbian separatist commune and ditch men entirely, just to see what it would be like."

me too. I'm not a mum and I don't know far the crazy has gotten. I notice you mention you feel you can't set up a group. Is that a theoretical example or something you want to do?

Could you start a group in a private way e.g through existing contacts - or are you in that space where everyone is TRA friendly?
.

UndercoverGC · 17/08/2018 21:46

I'm not a mum either, nor likely to be one. Found this place because of extreme TRAs who kept describing it as an organised cabal of Nazis out to exterminate them. Sigh.

Problem is that I've known a number of the extreme TRAs, people who get mentioned on here, government advisors, so on, for a very long time.
Means that everyone in my social circles is either on board or too scared to stick their head over the parapet. I'm scared of people connecting anything I've said on here to my RL identity.

Womaningreen · 17/08/2018 21:52

oh dear
it sounds like you might need to make some new friends

but yes, I don't where is safe at the moment so have a drink here! Wine

UndercoverGC · 17/08/2018 21:54

My social circle effectively looks like the utopian dreams of Action for Trans Health and the rest.

Lots of opportunities for trans people to meet up and talk about their lived experience, and how the world makes assumptions about them because of their bodies.

I would like to be able to do the same. Meet up with people like me and talk. Doesn't seem like much, but even raising the concept is enough to be called transphobic.

Womaningreen · 17/08/2018 23:43

"My social circle effectively looks like the utopian dreams of Action for Trans Health and the rest."

wow. nightmare. I'm going to bed but should be around tomorrow. the pub does seem quiet but I think a lot of people are away. There is usually more chatting (I'm a regular but also NC).

FloralBunting · 19/08/2018 18:19

Blimey I'm shattered. Work is so full on right now, kids all at home on holidays, each with their own brand of button pressing, and I was up at 6am cleaning up puppy poo.

And I got home and the towel wash I had asked to be done was still sitting at the top of the stairs. I swear I'm out of all semblance of patience with the terminally woke and the latest developments in the anti-woman movement.

I am drinking far too much.Wine

Womaningreen · 19/08/2018 21:32

@Floralbunting

"Terminally woke" is a brill expression, thanks for that!

I was pooped and had a nap which was stupid because now I won't be able to sleep till some silly hour. I'm recording Bridge of Spies because I have t got the brains tonight. I hear it's v good.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/08/2018 23:58

Brewdecaf tea time for me now. I ought to put the dog to bed (he's slumbering somewhat noisily on mine at the moment) and turn in, but my sleeping habits have been out of kilter for a while.

Flora, I'm sure it must be against some subsection of talk guidelines to imply you've got a puppy without posting a photo.

ISaySteadyOn · 20/08/2018 07:39

I agree. In exchange, I offer the queen of our house. She has hypnotic powers and wakes me up at 6 to feed her.

CholloDeNombre · 20/08/2018 08:06

I've been up since 3.30 am, brain buzzing. Household now awake and stuff to do and I'm dead!

FloralBunting · 20/08/2018 11:12

Scrufty, the sleepy puppy. Been up since well before six, and refuses to pose.

Dark and stormies all round! Bluestocking piss up
ErrolTheDragon · 20/08/2018 11:36

awww....Grin

Puppies are adorable, but fortunately usually develop tolerably civilised sleeping habits a lot faster than human babies - hopefully scrufty will soon.

Womaningreen · 20/08/2018 12:02

I have a mountain of domestic stuff to do

please someone shout at me to get off MN and do some tasks for at least 30 mins...

ErrolTheDragon · 20/08/2018 12:09

OY!! Go and do real life for a bit and I will too, deal?

Womaningreen · 20/08/2018 12:15

deal.

I will set a timer and do a much needed tidy for 30 mins...

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