Transgender man gives birth and wants to be recorded as baby's father

[OrchidInTheSun]

FFS

I just heard this on the news. This fucked up person says it's a breach of their human rights not to be recorded as the baby's father.

I'm kind of running out of words to express my feelings about this

In the case of this person a 'father' is asking to register himself with no mention of s mother. If this is permitted and the process is changed what is to stop a biological father from doing the same?

Yes, so simple to explain to a child who sees every other child with a mummy.

The fact that a child sees other children with a mummy and they are with their dad certainly isn't too difficult. This happens when a mother dies or a father brings up a child or when gay fathers bring up a child.

Listener - I presume you were conventionally conceived, with married parents who have raised you. Your failure of imagination is a bit depressing. I can retell you - from personal experience- that birth certificates are enormously important if you don't have a conventional parenting set up

Tell, not retell. Autocorrect

Agreed Orchid. Also important to have facts on a child’s birth written down legally in one place in a way that the child and any official people around them can access.
Relationships between parents break down, adults can be shitty to each other and they can each want the child to have ‘their’ version of the ‘truth’. Self Identification in and out of motherhood or fatherhood is not OK for any child in any family set up.

@AssassinatedBeauty except for that case where two lesbians went to court to be recorded as mother and mother on the child's birth certificate... but it's far more convenient to forget that happens right?

Orchid Yes, I was and apologies for that comment I was being flippant.

I do agree that the birth certificate should include the details of the birth mother. It's important that they have accurate information when needing proof for official documentation. As mentioned previously, in this instance I think the person identifying as father should be able to have that included on the certificate, they should also be recognised as the birth mother.

The thing that is paramount to me is that this is the child's birth certificate, not their parent's. It's a legal document that belongs to the child. And the arguments seem to be 'What harm can it do?'. I think it's quite far reaching (though not a lawyer). If this case wins, anyone who has come out as trans could potentially change their children's birth certificates. There are hundreds of children whose fathers have come out in their 40s. Will those people - like Sophie Cook and Jane Fae* - be able to change their children's birth certificates to say that their children have two mums? Even though those kids have grown up knowing their dad as a man? Surely that would be legally possible if this goes through? And if it is about what gender you identify as when your child is born then I still fail to see how you can identify as a man while pushing a baby out of your vagina because that is most definitely not a male experience

Obviously I'm not suggesting they would do that but if a legal precedent is set to record parents as 'however they identify', some people will change their kids' BCs

Do posters who think the trans person here has got a good case, also think that if you changed legal sex after you’ve had children and after you’ve registered their births, that you should then be able to go back and revise their birth certificate/s in light of your new GRA certificate changing your legal sex?

(This is a power GRA certs don’t give at the moment).

If people don’t agree with doing that, why not? What’s different about making certification to suit an adult’s perception of themselves, at the initial birth registration?

This is not a question about parents who trans, that clearly happens occasionally, it’s a question about what should be on the birth certificate and what birth certificates are for.

This is not a question about parents who trans, that clearly happens occasionally, it’s a question about what should be on the birth certificate and what birth certificates are for.

Women used to have to go to court in order to put the truth on a BC, Now they want the right to lie on a legal document that belongs to the child.

Orchid I mentioned this in a previous post but my understanding is that the birth certificate is a document belonging to the government/council/state (??) families are provided with a copy of it therefore it doesn't belong to the parents or the child.

I've tried to verify this and haven't found a conclusive answer so I could be wrong.

Oh come on. That is totally splitting hairs. It's a document which records the birth of the child to specific adults. Whether it is the 'property' of the government is irrelevant

I thought you were posting in good faith but I don't think you are

Orchid I may have misunderstood. I thought your previous argument was based on the premise that the birth certificate belonged to the child. Therefore the parents requesting changes to be made to it was unfair to the child as they shouldn't have the right to impact another persons birth certificate in this way.

If the certificate is a matter of public record and doesn't actually belong to a specific person but to the state (?) then that wouldn't apply.

Not in good faith

I'm not sure what you mean by "not in good faith".

You said:

" The thing that is paramount to me is that this is the child's birth certificate, not their parent's. It's a legal document that belongs to the child."

If it's paramount is that it is a legal document belonging to the child, I don't see how it is splitting hairs to say that the document doesn't belong to the child as that was the basis of your argument.

"I honestly cannot understand this. I can understand someone who truly believes that they have been born into the wrong body and therefore choose to change the outward appearance of their body to align with how they feel but I cannot understand not "feeling" like a woman and yet doing the most female of things."

To them, the same way women can have dicks, men can give birth.

Because to them it's all just a feeling. Sex doesn't matter, i.e. sex functions (providing sperm or giving birth) are irrelevant.

Listener the baby's birth certificate is the baby's, not the mother's. That means it should reflect the real circumstances of the baby's birth, not be a talisman for the greater glory of some narcissist's gender identity.

Prawn From the little research I've done the birth certificate doesn't belong to any individual - it is a matter of public record.

I agree it should reflect the real circumstances and should state the birth mother. But if the birth mother then intends to then be the father then it should also reflect the real circumstances of that.

But if the birth mother then intends to then be the father ...

The birth mother is the birth mother is the birth mother. That's what the birth certificate records.

It also records the father and in the case of surrogates and same sex couples their names too. I think its fair for them all to be recognised/acknowledged on the birth certificate.

Yes it's a matter of public record. Which records the child's mother.

It's not about fair. It's about what is the truth. In the case of surrogates, it records the birth mother and father if he's there. Both women are recorded in same sex couples but not in same sex male couples. Same sex male couples have to get a parental order. This is because men can't give birth.

I absolutely agree! It should record the child's mother - I'm not disputing that. It sounds like the person that is taking this to court wants to avoid that though.

In this instance it would seem that the truth for the child is that the birth mother intends to bring the child up as it's father and this truth should also be noted.

I think its fair for them all to be recognised/acknowledged on the birth certificate.

Why if it is simply a document that belongs to the state that records a child's birth?
You seem to be contradicting yourself.

It is a record of a live birth. It does not include any information about how the child will be brought up.

bewilderness I'm not sure what the contradiction is? The birth certificate can be both a state document and include birth mother, father and legal guardians can't it?