Transgender man gives birth and wants to be recorded as baby's father

[OrchidInTheSun]

FFS

I just heard this on the news. This fucked up person says it's a breach of their human rights not to be recorded as the baby's father.

I'm kind of running out of words to express my feelings about this

*distressing not distressful ... probably loads of other typos :/

Perhaps Terfsup was just agreeing with y statement and essentially including herself as a person who expects logic and reason? Not attacking anyone?

Yes. I grinned because I recognised myself in your statement, GeorgeFayne.

Also,I have seen someone question the quality of a woman's eggs after she has been taking testosterone for a while. There must be a significant number of people who have lifestyles that damage their eggs. Suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to breed is stepping into eugenics territory which again is pretty distasteful.

I don't think that's distasteful nor do I think it's in eugenics territory. It doesn't matter to me what the lifestyle, environmental or genetic factors are that may have affected a woman's eggs (or a man's sperm) - if doctors know that this may affect her/him, she/he must be told, and I would hope this would lead to some very serious thought before embarking on a pregnancy, for the sake of the child who might have to deal with serious health issues. Also for the sake of the wider family who would be affected too. This is surely just the same as someone who knows a serious illness runs in the family (e.g. Huntingdon's or cystic fibrosis) and has to consider what to do.

I would also say it's yet another reason why, weighing up all the pros and cons, a child with gender dysphoria shouldn't be put on puberty blockers and a young teenager shouldn't get cross hormones (the latter doesn't happen on the NHS but does happen in other parts of the world and some teenagers are buying hormones on the internet and self-medicating). The child/teenager can't possibly be mature enough to understand the consequences of taking those drugs on their future fertility.

Surely it must be possible to construct a system similar to the issuing of birth certificates to adoptive parents, where the bio parents are named on the original birth certificate but a new certificate is issued once the court process is complete and parental responsibility has passed to the adoptive parents? So parents who have legally transitioned could be recognised on an official certificate as "father" despite gestating and delivering the child, but there is still an accurate official record of the child's parents

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g I do partially agree with what you say about your people and hormones. Though I don't think it should be stopped just only done as well informed adults never to children. This person may have delayed taking them in order to have children and only transitioned socially or frozen their eggs. It's another part of their life that we (rightly) have no idea on so none of us should assume.

@OlennasWimple if the record is sealed as it is with adoption , would we not be in same position ?

It's another part of their life that we (rightly) have no idea on so none of us should assume.

But medical people do know so should be able to warn them of any risks.

blah - no, the adoption record is only sealed in terms of people who have no legitimate interest in knowing being able to have a look at the records. They aren't literally sealed and never opened again. And - crucially - there is a full official record that says that baby Suzy Jones was born to Sarah Jones (mother) and Simon Smith (father) and subsequently adopted by Olenna Wimple and Olenna WimpleDH (names obviously made up).

My DD's short birth certificate looks like anyone else's but her long certificate is a copy of a certified entry in the adoption register. I haven't given it much thought, but I'm sure the clever people who work on this sort of thing could come up with a process that records that baby Suzy Jones was born to Simon Smith (mother) and Sarah Jones (father) but the parents wish to be recognised as Simon Smith (father) and Sarah Jones (mother).

(I'm assuming both of "Suzy's" parents are trans, to make things easier in this example)

To be VERY clear, in no way do I endorse eugenics or the notion that "breeding" (your term) should be restricted, limited, etc. I believe in something called informed consent. Adult human beings are capable of making their own decisions that not only affect their lives, but yes, their children's as well. (As parents, we do that every day.) I would love to see more research that could give individuals better information about the risks their choices pose to themselves and their offspring. For example, if it could be determined that after a certain number of years on testosterone, the risk of a birth defect was increased by X%, a woman could better decide what to do--freeze eggs before starting hormones, use a donor, or forego pregnancy. It is still her choice. Some choices are selfish and misguided, but that is not my decision to make.

My point is that research and discussion of this appears to be non-existent. Just as with the treatment of transgender adolescents and children, I feel it is imperative to put aside political correctness here and get some real factual data. Whatever the truth might end up being.

(And otherwise, I actually agreed with a lot of what you said.)

Just realised I said your people and hormones I meant to say young!