Transgender man gives birth and wants to be recorded as baby's father

[OrchidInTheSun]

FFS

I just heard this on the news. This fucked up person says it's a breach of their human rights not to be recorded as the baby's father.

I'm kind of running out of words to express my feelings about this

"What does this mean? Should there no longer be any distinction between male and female? Maybe we should all be an "it" and can pick and choose how we act, dress, live our lives on an ever changing basis depending on how we "feel" at any given time?"

This would be fine and if this were the case then individuals (m or f) wouldn't feel as uncomfortable in their body because it would mean less. I think we were more androgenous in the past. The feminine ideal has become more feminine (physically). The male ideal has become more masculine.

Any meeting in the middle wrt traditional roles has been anti-reflected in our physicality.

It doesn't seem to fit with the whole dysphoria thing does it? I found being pregnant made me hugely aware of the femaleness of my body. Pregnancy must be horrific if you suffer from dysphoria. And yet there are quite a few of these people who seem to think they're men and yet can do the most female thing in the world

Somebody on another thread said that what needs to happen is that men need to accept feminine men. They also need to accept masculine women! Men are threatened by a lot and it's costing women in new unbelievable ways!

I agree orchid. It made me feel more female than I ever had before.

Sorry, I phrased that badly, it gave me a heightened awareness of having a female physiology.

Totally agree sweetie

It's attention seeking above dysphoria

Geordie - what isn't fucked up about deciding you're a bloke halfway through your pregnancy and then taking legal action to alter your child's birth certificate to reflect your conceit?

I agree, falling pregnant, giving birth and breastfeeding all gave me a very heightened awareness of the biological facts of being a female mammal. There ain’t no getting away from the facts of life!

Isn't this exatly why the words 'pregnant person' were dreamt up, though?

I wonder how the child will be brought up.

Having an 'unusual' family is hard enough but when the person who carried you for 9 months and gave birth to you tells you off when you give them a mothers day card, or you wonder what's going on when you have biology lessons, or grow up being told that you haven't actually/ever had a mum, or the person who you call 'dad' has a female body and did actially give birth to you...

Wow.

In English law the person who gives birth to a child is its mother

I'd say most laws would agree with that one. Or they don't need to a really say it because - is bloody obvious!

What would it do to a psyche to be brought up to believe that you, unlike 100% of human beings were not conceived and gestated inside a female?

How would a child navigate learning that they were in fact conceived and gestated inside a female, but the outward recognition of this fact would likely result in the parental alienation?

Are children responsable for the validation of an adults identity?

Should a child be forced to colude in a lie that pertains to their very existence in order for their parent to avoid confronting their own dissonance?

The delusion, narcissism and self centred ness of the parents does not bode well for the well-being of the child. The parents have responsibilities to the child. The child has the rights.

still wonder about the baby of the male bodied person who took a cocktail of drugs in order to produce a trickle of 'milk' to 'chest feed' the baby with. I wonder about this too - a friend took the morning after pill a while back and was warned to pump and dump for x days after. Fuck alone knows what kind of medical quack allowed prescription of such drugs to someone breastfeeding men have breasts too ffs, call a breast a breast a baby for their own gain.

It is fucked up. It’s like the ultimate expression of individualism and narcissism.

Oh FGS. This shows what happens when you allow nonsense into law in the first place.

Yes, it's like Sir Walter Scott's "tangled web."

Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive

I can’t answer any of those questions as I’m too drunk having attended the funeral of my maternal grandmother. The women who’s body facilitated the growth of the egg that became me.

I’m not inthe mood to facilitate female erasure today. Nope, not happening. That child was born of a female body - they should have the right to have that legally recorded.

A few people have mentioned that the rights of the baby have not been considered. What are the rights that the baby has been denied?

To have his biological father on his birth cert for one?
To have the truth on his bc

I don't think that is a right of the child is it? A father doesn't need to be named on the birth certificate at all I don't think.

there was a ruling in germany this year . the other way round, where a TIM wanted to be registered as mother and was refused.

There is a difference. Sometimes it's not known who the father was. This baby was conceived of a woman's egg and gestated and birthed by a woman who is raising him as a single parent. A mother has automatic parental responsibility.

Perhaps birth certificates should be changed to say Parent 1 and Parent 2, where Parent 1 is the person who gestated and gave birth, and Parent 2 is the person who provided the sperm (or blank if Parent 1 doesn't want to or cannot give details).

Everyone would know exactly what that means. Recording a fiction as a matter of public record seems wrong to me.

Ereshkigal that makes sense. However that is about legal responsibility - it wouldn't be that a right of the child had been denied would it?

"I hate this ... in these kind of situations the child's rights have to be paramount - no centring men or women but THE BABY .... they are not an accessory but a person with their own rights..."

Agree. But we don't do that. We don't do it for adoption, surrogacy or where ova and mitochondria come from different women. I actually think babies should have the absolute right to have their full genetic ancestry recorded. I would support a law on that so that mothers must identify the source of sperm, ovum (nucleus) and mitochondria. If necessary, we should by law mandate DNA tests to establish the source of sperm.

But, under present practices, I would support the guy's request

Poor kid. Does the child have no rights whatsoever in this?