Transgender man gives birth and wants to be recorded as baby's father

[OrchidInTheSun]

FFS

I just heard this on the news. This fucked up person says it's a breach of their human rights not to be recorded as the baby's father.

I'm kind of running out of words to express my feelings about this

A few people have mentioned that the rights of the baby have not been considered. What are the rights that the baby has been denied?

The right to be told the truth about his mother and father. The right to have HIS birth certificate (it isn't his parent's certificate, it is that of the child) reflect the actual reality - the truth.

Over in Ireland 129 people were just told that their birth certificates were a fraud perpetrated by the state and in fact they were adopted - the names put down as their birth parents were in fact their adoptive parents. Aspirational and false birth certificates have no place in modern society.

The baby is being told that he doesn't have a mother. he does. every human who has ever been conceived on this planet has a mother. Potentially that baby will not know which of his parents gave him his mitochondrial dna (well of course he will know - everyone knows, it is just an elaborate charade that we aren't supposed to call out - but that isn't the point)

if a birth certificate doen't tell the truth, then what is the point of it?

If you're a mammal and you have given birth then you are female. The state shouldn't be in the business of validating people's delusions.

The baby does have a mother - sadly it is one with a fucked up attitude and the willingness to put their ego and narcissism ahead of their child.

Glad I am old and will probably be pushing up the daisies by the time the law suits starts and the "experts' pushing the trans agenda start parroting "lessons will be learned"......

Pallisers I don't think any of that is currently a right for a child. As far as I know they have a right to access their birth certificate as it's a public record, but they don't have a right over what is stated on it.

From what I've read (I don't know the full story!) we don't know that the child is being told it doesn't have a mother, there is every chance that it will be told the truth about what happened and be given an explanation about what was recorded on the birth certificate.

What is the purpose of a birth certificate? What is it recording?

The long term consequences of allowing this are worrying. So Mr X decides to identify as transwoman whilst Mrx X is pregnant. Will he have the right to be recorded as baby X's mother? Will Mrs X have any rights will baby X?. How will we track genetic disorders?

“Gay parents don't seek to change or replace birth certificates, they might get an adoption order or gain parental responsibility another way. They aren't recorded as the birth mother (or father if a lesbian couple)”

This isn’t true. Since same sex marriage became legal, the legal spouse of the mother is recorded as the second parent, whether same sex or not. (I think this is good thing btw.)

How can this be so difficult?

The person who provided the egg is the child's mother.

The person who provided the sperm is the father.

That's all the is to it..

Having looked at the government guidance it seems a little more complex than that. Same sex male couples do need to get a parental order to gain parental responsibility. Same sex female couples can apparently both be on the birth certificate but only if they have had donor insemination or fertility treatment. Presumably because the father can be identified via the donor process if necessary.

Also the birth certificate isn't just about the parents, its to record the name and date of birth of the child. Obvious I know!

And their sex. But maybe that should be left off these days until the baby is old enough to inform their parents of their gender identity.

Ha ha - of course! But good point - it's right that sex should be listed and not gender. My baby is due later this year the sex will be listed but who knows what gender it will have in 20 years!

Mother and father should be on birth certificate. Soon I will be wondering if a can call myself and woman or not... this world gone nuts!!

... a

The closer the law gets to validating delusion, the closer we get to enabling any lie to be legally enabled - why would sex be the exception?

Lack of foresight by the judges in 2004 (don't worry, we don't foresee lying about the sex of 2000 men being significant enough to have repercussions - duh) has led to the situation where females literally are no longer recognised in law and are disconnected from every law previously pertaining to them.

Lack of foresight in ratifying the lie that a person who has conceived, gestated and birthed a child is the 'father' leads to a similar legal disconnect between exclusively female functions and the legal definition of female.

We are unpicking ALL meaning of male and female in our laws - whilst the actual injustices of sex continue in real life, unabated, unrecognised, and unaddressed.

If you can see it but can't speak it, you can't address it.

I really want the adults to take charge now. This has gone so far beyond reason.

Why is sex important to record and not gender identity? I thought the accepted view these days is that sex is irrelevant, and gender identity is key. So really, why would anyone need or want to record the baby's sex? Why does anyone need to know that minor biological fact?

Beauty
Nice try, but not good enough I'm afraid.
Sex is the only defined characteristic. Anything else is just in the mind.

Good point - perhaps it isn't relevant to record sex, I hadn't thought of it that way I'd just accepted it as the norm! You couldn't record gender identity at birth anymore than you could record sexual orientation at birth though as you don't know what they are.

Sex is fixed at conception, and cannot be renegotiated later. It is fixed until death.

Here in Canada birth certificates are well on their way to becoming works of fiction. Adults can already easily change the recorded sex on official documents usually just by filling in a form. I don't think it is possible to have your male child recorded as female, but recently a parent (a non binary transman and presumably the mother of the child as no other parent has been mentioned) managed to get a 'unspecified' health record for their child after having an unattended home birth. The legal case for this was supported by someone who uses no capital letters which is a strong indicator of being a freeman on the land. Health cards tend to be used as primary ID here until driving licenses are issued (in my province the two are combined) so this is quite important. If the parent is like this couple and indicators are that this is the case then the child will probably be home schooled and allowed to pick their own gender.

www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/health/canadian-baby-gender-designation/index.html

www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/07/11/baby-storm-five-years-later-preschooler-on-top-of-the-world.html

Personally I think birth certificates should be accurate biological records, although I know in practice on the male side that has often not been the case.

Well the government saw fit to abandon collecting accurate sex data. Why do we need to know? Women are a feeling after all!

Sex is fixed at conception, and cannot be renegotiated later. It is fixed until death.

...and after, for several millennia.

jakobssonlab.iob.uu.se/pdfs_Jakobssonlab/Skoglund_etal_JAS_2013.pdf

...and after, for several millennia. smile

in the brave new world, the bones of Richard III would never have been identified - his matriarchal line would never have been acurately recorded in the first place.

Except that the DNA would still be identifiable even if the Duchess of York had identified as a man in the mid 15th century. It would have had no effect on the ability to identify Richard III.