Liberal Democrats: ‘why are transphobes protesting? Because they are thick’

[QuoadUltra]

In case anyone was hoping that the LibDems might offer some political sanity in turbulent times, don’t bother.

Their LGBT thread on why ‘transphobes’ - women with concerns - are ‘a bit thick’: Thread Here

We could do with a sensible third party in British politics. Too bad the Lib Dems keep ruling themselves out.

Very good point, Pencils.

When I'd previously complained about the account to the Lib Dems, they said they were aware of "a discussion ongoing on this matter" and would pass on my comments. That was over a month ago.

For once I agree with Daim - everyone should read that twitter thread in all its patronising, infantalising glory, then read Pencil's rebuttal with links to the actual policy documents clearly proposing changes to the Equalities Act, and make their own mind up.

Indeed.

Wouldn't satisfy me. I want EA single sex exemptions strengthened and for orgs, companies and institutions to be required to refer to their customers and service users, not loudmouth activists and lobby groups, before deciding to ignore them. I want an end to teaching the gender identity religion as fact to vulnerable children in primary schools.

It would have satisfied me untilk fairly recently. However enough businesses (and schools) have been duped by transactivists aggressive lies and manipulation that they now all think that its illegal to provide single sex services at all. I would be happy leaving the law exactly as it is, with regards to GRCs (ie. I do not want to repeal them, but I still think it was a daft law to start with really) but I want the single sex exemptions to be stronger in the EA, and also for this to be widely publicized so that it is widely known how manipulative mens rights activists were in this whole thing.

I don't think the LGBT libdem account is actually official is it?

Also, I would agree that actual transphobes are probably a 'bit thick'. However, transphobe seems to be thrown at many many people who are not actually transphobic, and on that LGBT libdem account they tend to use transphobe to mean any woman with a different opinion to them on trans matters. So yeah, reads a bit differently when its just 'women are a bit thick'. What happened to that thread where 'terf' was replaced with what it actually means? Which is generally 'women who say things I don't like'

When I'd previously complained about the account to the Lib Dems, they said they were aware of "a discussion ongoing on this matter" and would pass on my comments. That was over a month ago

I got told the Lib Dems' 'pastoral care officer' that that Twitter account was to do with them.

How odd.

Aaaagh sorry nothing to do with them

"I got told the Lib Dems' 'pastoral care officer' that that Twitter account was to do with them.

How odd."

It was the pastoral care officer that I spoke to, we had a bit of back and forth as I was also complaining about some sexist comments a local councillor had made (that was passed to the local party who never actually got back to me). She didn't respond to what I'd said about the twitter account at first. Just said she was forwarding my email to that local party. I asked if they would also be responding to my concerns about the LGBT twitter account and that was her response.

I don't feel comfortable naming the 'pastoral care officer' - but isn't their email address public knowledge on the public Lib Dem website?

I mean, what's ethical? Is it ok to post the publicly available email address or not?

I don't feel great about a paid employee being exposed to this when Vince Cable and Jo Swinson and Sal Brinton hide behind it, iyswim.

I'm not sure, she is named on the website but I don't know if her contact details are on there? I put the complaint in through the complaints form on the website.

Just googled and it's here along with Dave Allworthy who i think is senior

www.libdems.org.uk/complaints_public_contact_us

Well the 'advanced biology' on this thread was rather entertaining.

And trans is nothing to do with intersex. Yes some intersex people may also be trans, but generally, nothing alike. I thought I had the link saved but I don't..intersex groups have been fighting transactivists for a while. TRAs have been trying to link themselves to intersex and one of the groups put out a public statement about this (that I thought I saved but didn't). I can search for this if needed but it will have to be tomorrow as..time.

I would love for there to be some way to actually tell if someone is trans, besides just their say so. But there is not (currently, ther may be at some stage in the future) And the 'biological basis for sex dysphoria' may well be true, but as others have said, there are biological basises for a fair few mental illnesses too. And brain scans and such show similarities with the likes of anorexia, rather than prove there are male and female brains.

TRAs have been trying to link themselves to intersex and one of the groups put out a public statement about this

Here.

And here's their account of how GIRES treated them.

Thanks for that, saved me much searching and have saved it now. How GIRES behaved is just vile tbh

cf Sarah Brown & Cambridgeshire LA

Link to thread re issues with local councils Equality Act 2010.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3271841-does-your-local-authority-equality-policy-exclude-sex-as-a-protected-characteristic

I'm a LibDem member, so have submitted an official complaint to the party about this Twitter account. I suspect it's the same person I've argued with on LD Facebook groups. I've asked them to shut it down, or at least publicly state that it is unauthorised and doesn't represent the party's views. I'll report back if I hear anything.

If the account is unauthorised, then surely the LibDems legally have the right to have it taken down? Why are they letting it stand and damage their reputation? It's crazy.

Kristina Harrison has absolutely owned Sarah Brown on twitter.

I'm crap at linking twitter so this was SB to KH:

Let me make something perfectly clear: my primary & secondary sex characteristics are female. My blood chemistry is female. My bio markers fall in the female range. My birth certificate and medical notes say I’m female. However, that’s irrelevant.

KH response:

1. Since you choose to challenge on those grounds let me be perfectly clear. Every cell in your body contains male chromosomes, your entire skeletal structure is male, some internal organs or lack of them are because you’re male. Your sense of entitlement certainly alludes to a 2) Male socialisation which is impossible to fully deconstruct and is as important in my view as your biology. Having artificial hormones, breast implants & creating a cavity in which to invert your penis makes you a transwoman, happier (I imagine) perfectly valid & wonderful. 3) It does not however make you a member of the female sex & to say it does really is to reduce women to a few body parts & a bottle of pills. We won’t get in the sea, we won’t yield to inversions of truth & when the tide of rationality flows again, playing King Canute won’t work.

Fabulous!

This brain stuff is neither here nor there though is it?

Women and girls have the experiences they have all over the world due their obserable sex. Boko Haram don't give a fuck what's in anyone's heads when they decide which people to kill and which ones to kidnap and rape.

Plus the fact that this thing - this thing that stonewall has described as a "deeply held internal feeling of gender" - is something that large numbers of women say they do not feel. The terminology and explanations have come from the trans community - by definition they have this feeling. But then it was extrapolated to everyone must have this feeling. Or pretty much everyone - agender was described as "rare". But, no-one has checked, have they. Women on MN on thread after thread say, we don't have this feeling, most of us. The TRA response is that this is because we're so comfy that we can't notice it AKA women don't know their own minds - so original.

I don't have this feeling. Same as I have no spiritual feelings. Nope, not there. I understand that other people do, I don't. I can't imagine what that feels like. Same for gender. But of course - I must be"cis" because that is what others have decided my identity is... I'm just too stupid to know it.

It's all so... Same old same old boring.

Girl / woman / female does not mean "feeling in your head" it means "got a cunt". Simple as that.

Of course it could be changed to mean feeling in your head and not cunt, which is what is happening.

Then we have large amounts of cunty people with no name, and no words do describe cunty people as a group when it's needed.

Just had another look at the LibDem tweets. They’ve repeated the ‘thick’ comment but the account looks sufficiently aggressive and immature as to be politically irrelevant.

Kind of damning that no-one really cares what the LibDems say or do. Bloody annoying really, as they could be pretty useful in Brithish politics right now.

twitter.com/FeministRoar/status/1005171544308506624

GoatSarah is sarah brown right?

= Libdem LBGT+

So trans people, especially trans women, are being 'hounded out of this debate'? (M. Cashman). What debate? Thought there wasn't one.

Through the looking glass.

I think it needs to be better understood how those who are asking questions about trans rights are being presented.

People draw conclusions if they given 'proof'.

It would be interesting to know how Michael Cashman has come to this conclusion. I am sure there will be a basis for it.

background re LGBT+ twitter account.