Paris Lees interviewed by Nick Robinson on Radio 4 now on.

[R0wantrees]

Just listening...

Hello wine! Welcome!

My view is that we have enough to do defending and protecting women from misogyny. Yes, it's sad. But there are plenty of men who can help Paris. I don't see why it's women's work.

I was new myself not long ago and now I'm hooked.

I doubt Paris wants things any other way, Paris is happy playing poor me and being an Emperor destroying the lives of women and children. Paris will not put in the work to resolve trauma.

Focussing on individuals and getting angry is a mistake. It's a whole culture that needs attention

Paris Lees isn't any old individual.

Paris Lees is a propaganda machine for the trans movement, and uses their story to elicit sympathy to stop people criticising trans rights ideology - a tactic that didn't work with Nick Robinson.

In this context, it's absolutely fair enough to focus on the Paris as an individual.

Your female socialisation is showing. We do need to criticise some people. It might hurt their feelings. There is too much at stake here to worry about Paris's hurt feelings - it's that kind of thinking that got us into this mess.

Welcome to FWR on Mumsnet :) Keep posting, keep questioning, it's a great place to be to get to grips with this issue.

Paris isn't an individual minding their own business. They have been given a huge platform to redefine woman, often without being challenge.

If we can't talk about the damage individual TRA are doing to women and girls, we will never identify the problems and stop it happening.

WineGummyBear, I agree with you the root problem of all this is toxic masculinity.

I think its possible to have compassion for those TIMs (the young, homosexual kind like Paris and Monroe Bergdorf) who I see as victims of toxic masculinity, while getting even more angry with those TIMs I see as perpetrators of toxic masculinity (the older, autogynephilic kind).

I don't think compassion for the homosexual TIMs necessarily gets in the way of fighting for the rights of women and girls, because I don't believe changing society the way TRA's want will actually make the homosexual TIMs any happier.

I too think about Quentin Crisp a lot; however, he had the insight to understand that his dream was impossible.

Thanks for the welcome y'all. I find these conversations really enlightening and interesting.

I'm totally sticking around!

Welcome from me too, Wine.

Meanwhile Lily Madigan had written an article entitled Britain's bad journalism risks normalising transphobia

Care to see the opening title? Here we go-

"Why are we giving the media effectively promoting transphobia?"

Yup. Bad Journalism/Grammar/Nonsense right there

*has

I wonder quite how many trans adults had parents who followed sex stereotypes so strongly. It seems to be a common theme. Either forcing boys to play with 'boys toys' and such, or deciding that because boys like pink they are actually girls. Same thing really, but from different sides.

Stop

Link please!

medium.com/@lilymadigan/britains-bad-journalism-risks-normalising-transphobia-adab3c3a76e3

It might be good to consider this article point by point...

& play the ball rather than the football player.

Bah, it's changed! The offending sentence was there this morning

Screen shot

I agree - the grammar is not very impressive but best go for the ball.

Having said that, I only got half way before my brain tuned out. It's dull reading.

Well I'd never heard of a TERB before.

Feeling turbocharged now, Lils makes sure we know that TERBs are also exclusively (as opposed to exclusionary) feminists though.

'When trans women are being murdered at the highest rates since records began - including in London'. As far as I know, there has been one such this year in London. The stats for the UK show there are more TW killers than there are victims.

What is he on about? Should news outlets only permit positive, trans-friendly stories? In LM world, yes obviously.

It concerns me deeply that discussion of the vulnerability of children and young people who identify as transgender and experience suicide ideation or make attempts is not responsibly reported.

Although this is a blog, I have also seen many articles, interviews on television, and websites concerned with advocating for better rights for people, especially young people, which do not seem to be observing good practise.

This group of children and young people are very vulnerable.

Samaritans' guidance is clear and well established:

"Research has consistently shown links between certain types of media coverage of suicide and increases in suicidal behaviour among vulnerable people – if you are covering this topic please refer to our media guidelines or contact our media advisory team for help."

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide

I suppose you could call it hyperbole - one is probably the highest since records began - what are these records; is it not recorded as a death of a woman?

It's shocking that TRAs consistently get away with blatant lies.
I mean I know lying is their raison d'etre, but the deaths-of-transpeople stats are so manipulative.
The made up suicide and death stats are always used for emotional blackmail.

That's useful as a collection of TRA tropes ready for dismantling.

Yesterday's repeated podcast from this series was also really interesting to listen to.
Nick Robinson interviewed Angela Raynor

Significant points made:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b48x4t

Does anybody else now automatically disregard any statements or statistics from Stonewall?

I was a bit disturbed to come across this on twitter earlier. I wonder if other media outlets rely on Stonewall like this?

also