Alert the TRAs! Transphobia against transwomen!

[LaSqrrl]

The tweet:
Straight men: would you date a trans person (m to f) if they’re hotter than regular women

The responses are a bunch of straight 'cis' men displaying obvious transphobia. I wonder if the TRAs will tell them to DIAF, or threat to rape them? Given lesbians are ordered to 'love the ladystick', or suffer the consequences, I am very curious to see what consequences befall straight men.

Answers on a postcard.

"I suspect the figure is higher. I know of many female friends who appear to be heterosexual, married to men and who have had a sexual relationship at some point with a woman."

Don't we all.

Its weird, gibberty doesn't think very highly of males or females

The fact that some men will fuck any hole going whether it's part of a woman, a man, or a vacuum cleaner, has little to do with men really thinking that transwomen are women.

GibbertyFlibbert

"Yes, some men will be attracted to transwomen and be fine when they find out they're not really women."

That's the equivalent to saying that a gay couple are not really married because they can't have children. It's prejudiced and simply wrong. Just as your claim about trans women.

corrected

Some men lie about sex

Some women lie about sex

I do love the word 'some'

Yes, some men will be attracted to transwomen and be fine when they find out they're not really women.

Except for the ones that are 'not fine', and frequently kill or beat them. That is what happens to many of the prostituted TIMs, when they try fooling men. This is most of the trans on the trans 'list of remembrance' btw.

The real issue here is not whether or not a straight man would have sex with a transwomen, or whether or not they would lie about it.

The real issue is that when lesbians say what these men are saying, that they would not date a transwoman because transwomen are male, lesbians receive harrassment and threats.

Why aren’t these men being called “vagina fetishists”? Why aren’t these men being told to “examine your preference”? Why aren’t these men being called bigots?

Why aren’t these men on the receiving end of the same abuse lesbians face for stating the exact same thing?

"Except for the ones that are 'not fine', and frequently kill or beat them. That is what happens to many of the prostituted TIMs, when they try fooling men. This is most of the trans on the trans 'list of remembrance' btw."

True but England is different to many countries and the law expects people to disclose things about their health which their partner might see as important before sleeping with them - HIV status and gender history are two obvious ones.

Exactly, Luna. Precisely none of these men has been told to DIAF, threatened with being punched, had a gif posted as a response of a man waving a baseball bat wearing a fake-blood splattered t-shirt saying "I KILL TERFS."

This just hasn't happened. The odd "that's transphobic" comment - very infrequent - but no pile-on threatening violence, no suspension of accounts.

Wonder why that is? Why could it be, in 2018, that men's comments on twitter elicit such a different response from women's, both from other twitterers and from the mods? Puzzling.

There's a definite thread of coercing females running through the tranosphere[1]. For example, this TRA fantasises about coercing lesbians into penetrative sex and the coercion is definitely part of the appeal. The lesbian in the pub after WPUK Newcastle who described cotton ceiling as "corrective rape" was bang on the money.

[1] I coined this just now as an analogy with the "manosphere". The goals of both are identical.

"Why aren’t these men on the receiving end of the same abuse lesbians face for stating the exact same thing?"

Because the true comparison is between how men are with trans men, not how they are with trans women. I don't see men saying that trans men aren't really men, or that they are in men's spaces just to perv on men. I certainly don't see a campaign to keep trans men out. So far as I can tell, men don't much care.

Sorry, my last comment was a response to @Nauticant, who wrote "The game is to make us say TWAW while not believing it. It's taking pleasure in the coercion. It's a power thing."

On Grindr gay men have complained that transmen are "ruining" What should be a gay dating site. They are not into men with vulva.
Funnily enough the transmen are not abusing or threatening gay men.

There was a thread a few months back on twitter by some lads type account. Picture of six 'trannies' and a caption about meet the new Labour shadow cabinet or something.

Cue hundreds of jokey responses ie don't fancy yours much and tagging mates saying 'that one's even uglier than your ex' etc. Some of it veered into open hatefulness.

Not one TRA complained.

Most men don't know of the existence of transmen. If they did, they certainly would think they weren't really men.

Nope, not the true comparison at all.

Female bodied people live with the constant awareness that they can be raped by male bodied people.

Male bodied people (understandably, given the differential in physical strength) do not have to live with the constant awareness that they can be raped by female bodied people.

They can be, and sadly sometimes are, raped by other male-bodied people.

As with so many issues around male violence, and male sexual violence in particular, the situations are quite markedly asymmetric.

Yes gibbflib - go harass a few men today,

On a recent thread,
Prawnofthe Patriachy commented:

"Gay men aren't on board with trans ideology if you go by the online gay community Datalounge. I've got a new phone and can't link atm, but if you search Datalounge trans you'll get a load of threads.

They are very outspoken and often very funny with it. They are aware that other forums don't allow such free discussion, but TRAs can't get traction there. Gay men on Datalounge reject accusations of transphobia pretty vehemently"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3259650-Lesbian-gets-banned-from-LGBTQ-messaged-board-for-trying-to-talk-about-the-lesbophobia-in-trans-activism

@GibbertyFlibbert I don't see men saying that trans men aren't really men.

Then you are looking in the wrong places: m.mic.com/articles/128056/the-painful-truth-of-being-a-trans-man-on-a-hookup-app

God that Twitter thread is both depressing and encouraging.

Depressing for obvious reasons.

Encouraging because, in the moments when I feel like I've gone 'too far' in being gender critical, it's nice to have concrete evidence that, as a woman, I'm probably being held to a different standard than men.

Thanks so much for sharing, OP.

as to why TRA's don't get traction on Datalounge etc

it was speculated:
"Partly, also they don't open themselves up for debate or negotiation. They spend little time justifying why they have written something - they don't care if anyone disagrees.

But mainly it's because most TRA don't need or want anything from gay men."

Because the true comparison is between how men are with trans men, not how they are with trans women. I don't see men saying that trans men aren't really men, or that they are in men's spaces just to perv on men. I certainly don't see a campaign to keep trans men out. So far as I can tell, men don't much care.

The men at Hampstead pond seemed to care very much when self-identified men entered their space:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3261705-Turns-out-Hampstead-swimming-ponds-are-single-SEX-after-all

But no, that’s not the “true comparison.” The “true comparison” is between the treatment of lesbians who say they would not date/have sex with transwomen because they are male; and the treatment of men who say they would not date/have sex with transwomen because they are male.

Two groups of people saying the exact same thing about transwomen, yet one group gets piled on and another group does not.

Why is that?

That’s because men aren’t afraid of women coming into their spaces, it doesn’t make them fear for their safety.

There are plenty of men who have a fetish for TIMs but I’m sure being fetishised is not what most human beings want.

I figured at least one TRA would barrel in to at least give the appearance of treating men and women equally. But nope, hasn’t happened.

Nauticant, I actually worked with a bloke who was sacked from Toni and Guy for... inappropriate behaviour involving a hoover... 🤮

Because the true comparison is between how men are with trans men, not how they are with trans women.

No, dear. What the different responses by trans-identified male people between lesbians saying no thanks and straight men saying no thanks is emblematic of male pattern sexual coercion of female people. Trans identity or otherwise. It evidences that transition does not mitigate this male behaviour.

You know this. We know this.