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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Government response to the petition...

255 replies

LazyTuesdayAfternoon · 05/06/2018 16:30

I don't know if there's a thread about this already, sorry if I've missed it.

What do people make of the response?

It seems quite proportionate to me but, as always, I guess the devil will be in the detail...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
PercyAndFriends · 06/06/2018 16:29

I will book a new meeting with my MP at some point and ask that the next party manifesto to pledge for a legal definition in all law to confirm the word woman is a biological adult human female and return women's rights that trans rights eroded in the 2004 GRA and 2010 EA.

Ffs

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 16:32

Well there is no definition in law. It's just a presumed definition based on the presumption that we all know what a woman is. So now that oresumptionnus questioned yes, let's get a definition of
Woman
Man
Sex
Gender

If these words are going to feature so heavily in upcoming legislative reform.

PercyAndFriends · 06/06/2018 16:37

I found a face to face MP meeting very successful the last year. I know from the meeting that my MP is a misogynist, I also know my MP has females they care about, because they brought it up. The work they did on my behalf for women's rights was driven from love of their own family. I will have to explain the consequences for their loved ones, to get us all human rights again.

OneHourTwentyFourMinutes · 06/06/2018 17:07

I have some good news to report. Grin

We may not require a class action against M&S after all.

I have been in several discussions with them about this issue including today. I did send them a link to this thread.

They are now considering reinstating sex exemptions and going back to their old policy.

Italiangreyhound · 06/06/2018 17:11

Well done,

OneHourTwentyFourMinutes · 06/06/2018 17:16

I am not a TopShop customer, so I suggest one of their customers consider the situation with them.

I also suggest as many as possible contact M&S to raise feminist concers, as I am sure Trans activist lurkers will be contacting them.

I will thank M&S with both a return of my custom and return their good name with all I know, if they return to the old sex segregation policy.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 17:18

Primark is significant.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 17:24

There's quite a bit that has been going on with Primark. They were found guilty of discrimination and harrassment (I think) against one of their employees.

There was the challenge against the Coventry store (though lodged by a student from Oxford Uni who was part of LGBT+) a trans woman was asked for id. She had some. The issue was she felt discriminated against.

There was another challenge in East Anglia (I think) a transwoman was shown to another changing room (not the general women's)

There's issues being raised about Pride merchandising / Stonewall / Primark. Issues around ethics of suppliers as well as corporate sponsorship. There was twatter chatter a couple of weeks ago

Sorry dont have specifics....

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 17:34

Article in today's Metro:
(extract)

"A transgender woman said she was left devastated this week after being turned away from female changing rooms and told to ‘use the gents’. Jay Campbell visited the Debenhams store in Glasgow in a bid to find a dress for her friend’s wedding.

However, as she went to try it on she claims she was stopped from entering the cubicle – and told to head downstairs to the men’s section. The 25-year-old from Carluke, Lanarkshire, added that she walked to the male section ‘crying in shock’ after the exchange. She has been living as a woman for the last two years, and taking female hormones since the start of the year....

‘I asked the assistant if the changing room was open and she said, “Yes”. When I went to use it, she stopped me and told me I had to use the gents on the first floor. ‘I told her I was transgender and she still insisted I used the gents. When I got there, the two women were the complete opposite – they were kind and helpful. They asked what was wrong and I told them.

‘They were shocked and told me I should have been allowed to use the changing room up there. They also told me they had been trained in how to deal with these situations. I won’t be spending a single penny in there again.’ Posting about the incident on Facebook, Jay added: ‘I was so upset and sick of having to explain myself. ‘I was about to spend a fair bit of money on the outfit but after being treated like a freak I threw the dress at her.’"

metro.co.uk/2018/06/06/transgender-woman-told-use-male-changing-rooms-try-dress-debenhams-7609048/

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 17:36

Wow that's terrific hour 🙌🏻🙌🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Waddlelikeapenguin · 06/06/2018 17:37

OneHourTwentyFourMinutes wow!
I will thank M&S with both a return of my custom and return their good name with all I know, if they return to the old sex segregation policy.
Me too!

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 17:39

Yes I will too. It was on my boycott list. I've been going to Debs.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 17:40

Fairplay for Women's fact checker page link is here:

fairplayforwomen.com/fact-checker/

They have a lot of detailed resources on the site.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 17:42

Pratchet possible challenge to Debenham's policy reported today.

OneHourTwentyFourMinutes · 06/06/2018 17:43

Why didn't Jay start a campaign for trans facilities like women and people with disabilities did?

Even my friends Mum is boycotting M&S at the moment over their sex discrimination policy against women.

GeordieTerf · 06/06/2018 17:43

He threw the dress at her? Shock

I hope Debenhams phone the police!

OneHourTwentyFourMinutes · 06/06/2018 17:48

What woman wants to share a space with Jay? Jay will be physically stronger and taller than most of us, and has not got a good control of themselves. I hope Debenhams and other stores ban Jay from using sex segregated spaces for the safety of female staff and customers.

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 17:49

Well, good on that shop assistant.

spontaneousgiventime · 06/06/2018 17:51

Well done Debs assistant. Women don't want penis' in our spaces.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 17:51

Debenhams
It sounded like the staff were sympathetic downstairs and were likley to help.

They must have all gone back upstairs to the women's changing rooms...

'use the gents' is unusual language.

It sounds like more may have gone on than reported.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 06/06/2018 17:56

M&S live chat was easy to use Smile
They cant help but are feeding back...

spontaneousgiventime · 06/06/2018 17:58

I've also boycotted M&S totally, even their food court. I will not spend money in a store that won't protect me.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 06/06/2018 18:04

So Debenhams customer service to support the first member of staff then?
So much for living as a woman - has a male name. and a penis

Waddlelikeapenguin · 06/06/2018 18:05

The Debs thing should be in AIBU.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 18:13

additional comment from:
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-transgender-woman-left-tears-12652629

"Debenhams have said they are investigating the incident at their store in Glasgow.
Jay left Debenhams and went to nearby House of Fraser and said she was “treated like a princess”.

A Debenhams spokesperson said: “We are sorry for any distress caused to the customer. Debenhams changing rooms are not gender specific.

"We are currently investigating the incident.”