Are there any bad men in the Handmaid's Tale

[Pratchet]

Nick: lovely rescuer
Commander: offered friendship, acted pained, tried to explain
(Wife: narsty caah)
Van driver: lovely rescuer
Pilot: lovely rescuer
Econohusband: lovely rescuer
(Econo wife: mean and didn't wasn't to help)
Those foreign visitors at the end of season one - man tried to help, woman refused
Clinic assistant male: gave her key to escape

I feel a similar unease pratchet.

I keep hoping they will reveal the distress of the wives and aunts in private moments in having to participate in oppressing other women, but they don't. The scene where Aunt Lydia was alone in the bell tower crying looked for a minute like she was suffering intense remorse over the part she was playing and the whole situation, but it was revealed to be joy instead.

There is too much overt schadenfreude from the women with 'power' (agree that they don't really have much power) and barely any nuance.

It seems to be brave oppressed handmaids/brave whiteknight rescuers/vicious sadistic wives and aunts and all the other men are automatons like the guards or cool and disaffected commanders.
The men are almost portrayed as passive obedient citizens of the system (or whiteknights) whilst the women seem to be portrayed as revelling in their own cruelty.

In fact the women seem to be dropped into the madonna/whore binary. If you're oppressed enough we'll root for you, but if you're only a bit oppressed we can still get to hate you, bitch.

Yy barmer: tin foil hat but it looks deliberate to me.

The scene where Aunt Lydia was alone in the bell tower crying looked for a minute like she was suffering intense remorse over the part she was playing and the whole situation, but it was revealed to be joy instead.

I assumed the joy was partly because her position depends on handmaids getting pregnant.

Yes - but that's my point - even in her most private moments she's revealed to be a woman that rejoices in the suffering of others because it benefits her.

If you think of any other portrayal of a person showing relief in their own narrow escape it can be paired with empathy for another or callous disregard. The director will have given the actor notes on how to play that scene, and one of them was not "Aunt Lydia spares a moment to think of how much suffering she is facilitating and shows some private remorse alongside her relief"

Yes - but that's my point - even in her most private moments she's revealed to be a woman that rejoices in the suffering of others because it benefits her.

Of course she is, that's why the men in power put her in charge. She's a psychopath. Like the bitch of Buchenwald & the Beautiful Beast of Auschwitz, and a lot of the other women put in charge of the women in concentration camps. She's a sadist that the men in power have used to their advantage.

I don’t think AL is a sadist. I think she was a total believer and that she was crying with religious fervour/joy at the promise of a new baby.

She's a sadist and a zealot, that's the worst kind, and the most easily manipulated. She only has power because the men allow her to, because they don't want to get their hands dirty.

There was one nice wife. I think it was Emily’s family. Didn’t she pretend to be sick to avoid the ceremony?

Yes, but Emily told her she couldn’t be sick every month. The implication was, this was happening no matter what the wife thought about it.

Quack: yes there was that one nice wife. It was Emily's.

I wouldn't say she was nice. She showed some small amount of compassion by postponing the ceremony for a month, but made it clear that it couldn't be avoided every time, and not in a fearful way.

No , it was Emily who reminded her that she couldn’t be dick every month. The wife had no control over it.

Dick= sick

The men in power (e.g: commander) can be calm and relaxed and even indulge themselves in a charade of benevolence because they have no fear for their position. They have delegated the eye ripping and hand burning to others.

The women in “power” are frantic, terrifying and violent because they know that they (generally- Lydia is different) are one mistake, one refusal, one word from a man away from being the victim.
These women, wives etc cannot afford to show their resentment to the men controlling them so they redirect it onto other women.

Ah, sorry, misremembered how that conversation went. In which case, I agree the wife was being compassionate.

@BarrackerBarmer

“The men are almost portrayed as passive obedient citizens of the system (or whiteknights) whilst the women seem to be portrayed as revelling in their own cruelty.”

So a well played allegory for the patriarchy?
The average man is a passive obedient citizen with no clue just how complicit he is in the maintenance of the patriarchy.
Women fighting for entry to the boardroom tear one another down instead of asking why the men in the room won’t give them both access?

I think the TV show has been incredibly faithful to the original actually.

@LuxuryTime EXACTLY!!!

I agree with pratchet TBH.

I don’t like or enjoy the series at all. It’s a bastardisation of the book that ties in nicely with the shit that gets thrown at rad fems re ‘biological essentialism’

In all seriousness there are many people who are receiving the series as a cautionary tale re radical feminism rather than a commentary on patriarchy.

June calls out the fact that it is only men who are able to rescue her - 'Raise your daughter to be a feminist and she spends her time waiting to be rescued by men'.
Just before she gets to the plane.

OT but Rita "I've just been watching a garden-variety murder mystery. At the beginning there was a "feminist" flavored character who made a bit of a flouncy statement that statistically the murderer was likely to be male. I correctly predicted that the murderer would indeed be female because you know "women do it too".

Not only was she female but she was jealous, emotional and a career woman to boot. There's something about women in power that makes us profoundly uncomfortable. Men in power can be nasty or benevolent or any shade in between (as JF's character is). Women in power can only be power hungry bitches."

Was it you that mentioned watching Prime Suspect on Netflix, I'd been wondering where I saw the recommendation

The women in “power” are frantic, terrifying and violent because they know that they (generally- Lydia is different) are one mistake, one refusal, one word from a man away from being the victim.

I think Lydia knows that too. She is in a stronger position than most women, partlyy because she's not living in a household with men, but I think she is still aware she is not invincible. Her position depends on at least some of the handmaids getting pregnant, and I think if there was much hint of her letting the handmaids have fun or showing leniency rather than it ensuring it's a punishment for being adulterous fornication types, she would probably be relieved of her position. She knows it, but she's bought into it all the same, partly because it does give her some power.

Omg @pratchet

I completely agree and dd and I were saying the exact same thing after the last episode

It definitely feels deliberate. Even her mum!

In all seriousness there are many people who are receiving the series as a cautionary tale re radical feminism rather than a commentary on patriarchy

Yup

Man rapes woman = rescuer.

Somebody help me out here or have I missed the point...

Back - I think you have!