ManFriday article in the Daily Mail

[flowersonthepiano]

Good coverage of ManFriday at the Hampstead ponds - including supportive comments from Debbie Hayton, and not so supportive (stop being silly wimmin) comments from Jane Fae
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5796701/Hampstead-ponds-row-continues-transgender-demands-going-far.html

one of the speakers/trainers had told her that once the GRA has been changed, they will go after the same-sex exemptions in the EA next.

Of course they will. Because changing the GRA undermines the case for female spaces.

Sarah knows this. Watch all this "you can exclude if it's a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim" go out of the window in an instant if the GRA changes to allow many men to self identify into being legally female.

I'd like to add that I don't swim either because I don't feel safe going alone. I've been sexually harassed and perved at by boys and adult men as a teen and so I don't go. Which is a shame, because it's a perfect exercise for any overweight or with back trouble.

@R0wantrees, we should start counting this if no one else will.

Sarah knows this. Watch all this "you can exclude if it's a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim" go out of the window in an instant if the GRA changes to allow many men to self identify into being legally female.

Exactly.

Well done chaps!

Flowers thank you for posting the poster from Twitter.

It needs to be shared far and wide.

@anonymouseagain you mentioned a comment made about a guide training about gender identity- can you remember any more? With my 'guiding" hat on I would be very interested in this given all that is going on in guiding atm.

@anonymouseagain

There are still ladies only sessions at the Turkish Baths in Harrogate:

www.turkishbathsharrogate.co.uk/Pages/Terms.aspx

(although they do seem to be closing for a two month refurb)

The radio interview I did about this is available on this link thanks to my opponent hosting it on their website.

Thanks for posting that Sweary. You made some good points in the radio item. Did you speak to the person you were debating with any more after the microphone was off?
Thanks for doing this btw. Great campaign!!

Yes we had something of a conversation. It wasn’t particularly constructive.

Great interview Sweary and thank you for sharing a link. I was sorry to have missed it.
It's such a shame that Rameses "argued that these protests signify that it’s ok to hate the trans, non-binary and non-gender community". I heard him say that he would like to sit down and talk about it. I hope that this may have been possible after the interview finished.

Ah.. cross post!

That's a shame. It always seems to come down to the failure of TRAs to see the perspective of others. Did you see the interview with Venice Allen and two geordie transwomen on Facebook? It made me hopeful that the situation could be resolved if people genuinely listen to each other.

Yes. I think his “let’s talk” was on the terms that I listen and change my views entirely.

I know We Need To Talk and find a middle way but that’s just not on offer is it? Any offers to talk aren’t about finding compromise, they’re about beating us into submission. And when we say no we’re threatened (have had threats of police action and civil action today) and shut down (am shadowbanned).

They’re just making me more stubborn.

It's such a shame that Rameses "argued that these protests signify that it’s ok to hate the trans, non-binary and non-gender community". I heard him say that he would like to sit down and talk about it. I hope that this may have been possible after the interview finished.

Is Ramses identifying as a transman or non binary?

There's a link to the interview on the thread below. I thought it was really refreshing to hear people listening and showing respect for each other despite disageeing about some things important to them.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3265312-Venices-interview-with-Geordie-transwomen-Now-thats-what-I-call-a-talk-show

And when we say no we’re threatened (have had threats of police action and civil action today) and shut down (am shadowbanned).

Sweary I've just seen this re Twitter's recently changed shadow banning policy, did you know about it?

Twitter Announces More Shadow Banning For Those Having A ‘Negative Impact’

"When Twitter’s software decides that a certain user is “detract[ing] from the conversation,” all of that user’s tweets will be hidden from search results and public conversations until their reputation improves. And they won’t know that they’re being muted in this way; Twitter says it’s still working on ways to notify people and help them get back into its good graces. In the meantime, their tweets will still be visible to their followers as usual and will still be able to be retweeted by others. They just won’t show up in conversational threads or search results by default…

You’ve heard of Twitter jail? Let’s call this Twitter purgatory.

All of this shadow banning will be handled by an algorithm, meaning who gets banned will depend mostly on the reactions of other people. "

hotair.com/archives/2018/05/15/twitter-announces-shadow-banning-negative-impact/

@TimeLady

Yes, and at Carlisle, but it's quite a journey and the Harrogate women's sessions would require time off work. At Newcastle, I could go in after work if I wanted, and I really miss that.

@SarahAr I keep hearing the argument that the GRA is just about birth certificates, with the implication that it is little consequence. If that is so then you could just argue to repeal the whole thing.

However, the consequences are enormous. The law underpins social conventions. Women's spaces are protected principally by those conventions. At the moment women can challenge someone they think should not be there, confident that the person being challenged would need to respond. Bring in self-ID and they can simply say that "I am a woman because I say I am a woman".

I understand why women are unhappy and concerned about this. If we go ahead with self-ID those concerns aren't going to disappear. They will grow and fester. I do not want to be a victim of that. We must retain the need for objective evidence before someone can change their legal sex to protect women and protect the relationship between women and transwomen.

@R0wantrees. I regularly search my name from an alt account (mainly to see what my political opponents are saying about me from behind their blockwalls - can be illuminating) but it does reassure me that my Tweets are coming up on searches. Should they disappear then I would be able to investigate it.

However, the consequences are enormous. The law underpins social conventions. Women's spaces are protected principally by those conventions. At the moment women can challenge someone they think should not be there, confident that the person being challenged would need to respond. Bring in self-ID and they can simply say that "I am a woman because I say I am a woman".

This.

When Twitter’s software decides that a certain user is “detract[ing] from the conversation,” all of that user’s tweets will be hidden from search results and public conversations until their reputation improves. And they won’t know that they’re being muted in this way;

I would hope I'm not alone in questioning and being concerned about the Twitter software's ability to perform this thought policing in a rational and proportionate way.

That’s super shit R0wantrees. How do we fix our “standing” if we’re hidden. It makes me wonder what the TRAs are up to too as my tweets get lots of positive impacts. I have emailed Twitter support but won’t hold my breath for a response.

This is so annoying, but I suppose slightly flattering because we’ve obviously caused some upset by showing the public are not pro Self ID.

@averylongtimespartacus I'm afraid I can't remember more, but in my search for citable confirmation I found Stonewall's response to the Women and Equality Select Committee's inquiry into transgender equality, and I found the following in their recommendations:

A review of the Equality Act 2010 to include ‘gender identity’ rather than ‘gender reassignment’ as a protected characteristic and to remove exemptions, such as access to single-sex spaces

So yes, Stonewall are going after female-only spaces, and we can reasonably infer that the Equality Act will be next in their sights.

@SarahAr, we see the plan, we see that relaxing the GRA is just the beginning, and we know that we are fighting for our right to female-only services without which we cannot fully live our lives.

@SwearyG
I'm so sorry to hear that you are having to deal with threats of police and civil action. Have you got legal support? Is crowdfunding necessary?