ManFriday article in the Daily Mail

[flowersonthepiano]

Good coverage of ManFriday at the Hampstead ponds - including supportive comments from Debbie Hayton, and not so supportive (stop being silly wimmin) comments from Jane Fae
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5796701/Hampstead-ponds-row-continues-transgender-demands-going-far.html

It is a really good piece, it is a pity that it took invading men's spaces for the media to listen mind, but at this point I will take what we can get. Man Friday is a brilliant tool, keep at 'em. Congratulations chaps. (I think we need a pint of beer emoji for the Man Friday chaps)

And Jane Fae, really? No words.

Its good to see an article making clear points

Re Jane Fae's comment,
'‘I’ve lost count of the trans people who’ve said: “I’m not going swimming now.” This campaign has not stopped men abusing women but it has stopped a lot of trans people going swimming."

Jane made this the point of issue after the original #ManFriday, that its only likely consequence would be to stop people who were transgender going swimming.

cf Delia Johnson's comment from an article a few years ago describing her role in trans inclusive sporting policies:

"‘I play a lot of badminton. When I started transitioning, I was getting involved in my local gym. The NHS demand you keep yourself fit and healthy [if you are transitioning]. But how the hell can you do that if a gym is against you? It’s a Catch 22."

metro.co.uk/2015/10/21/transgender-woman-on-her-desperate-struggle-with-her-new-identity-and-how-she-was-accepted-by-the-fa-but-not-her-daughter-5376352/?ito=cbshare

For background, Delia Johnson was quoted when Liz Truss MP hailed Justine Roberts for 'her approach to free speech':

"the former head of a charity campaigning for trans sportspeople to be allowed to compete in their chosen gender, condemned Ms Truss. Ms Johnston said: ‘She is giving kudos to Mumsnet who are particularly vicious on this particular front. Truss could be investigated for backing a group that is effectively advocating violence against the transgender community. She may be a terf in disguise.’
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228488-Liz-Truss-MP-breaks-cover-backs-MN

who measures the women and girls who may have quietly stopped participating? Inclusion policies need to balance the needs of all to participate in sports

Bloody hell, a fair and balanced article in the mail. WTELF?

Well done ManFriday!

Citing the example of predatory males infiltrating women’s refuges, she says: ‘This notion that a rogue male could take advantage of it (the self-identifying law) is silly.

Recent article regarding situation in California:
(extract)
"A prominent Fresno charity, homeless women, and the transgender community all say they're experiencing a nightmare come true.

Nine women homeless women signed on to a lawsuit against Naomi's House and its parent company, the Poverello House, saying the last place they could go to feel safe is now dangerous because they're forced to shower with a transgender woman.

The Naomi House bills itself as a gentle haven of healing and a safe haven for single, homeless women, but a new lawsuit says it put a lot of women in harm's way in a very vulnerable spot -- the shower.

It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked..."

"Leaders in the Valley's transgender community tell us this is a nightmare for them too because if someone who calls herself a transgender woman is sexually harassing people, she put an already marginalized community in a bad light"
abc30.com/3514544/

Spartacus

Great article. Website won't allow me to log into my DM comments log-in. Could someone try posting a link to the petition in the comments?

Excellent article. I did have to grit my teeth on the need to include Amy and Swery’s marital status. the comments so far seem to get it ok which is an improvement in previous articles. Well done Manfriday chaps...are you laydees again today?

Of course there are intelligent contrary arguments to Debbie’s. Jane Fae is a trans woman, writer and diversity advocate

I'm still really perplexed, given Jane Fae's intelligence, with the argument she made on the Jeremy Vine show last week.

Jane said that women had different life experiences and one couldn't for example compare the lived experience of a 'poor' woman to the Queen, eg 'royal' woman. I think this argument actually illustrates the opposite to the point Jane was making. That in respect to being a girl and woman, biology is the shared experience regardless of wealth, occupation etc.

The Queen is also a woman and mother.

A poor woman could become a royal woman and royal women have become poor women.

Conversely, the thing that the Queen and 'poor women' can never experience, as opposed to Jane Fae, is being a 'trans' woman.

There was quite a bit of discussion about this point on the thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3256772-Guess-how-I-got-suspended-from-the-Labour-Party?

Comments are premoderated, but I've added one

And I mentioned the homeless charity too

Lol that they didn't include Jane Fae's marital status. Especially when they did include Debbie's

Good for you, @SwearyG, for being willing to stick your head above the parapet. I salute you!

I have just twigged as to who Jane Fae is. I remember reading about h** some time ago but forgot the name until I was reminded in this thread.

Excellent article. I particularly enjoyed the little swipe at Maria Miller.

I did have to grit my teeth on the need to include Amy and Swery’s marital status.

(With apologies to Sweary & Amy) Well, we do need to know why these unruly women have been let out to misbehave by their menfolk, and gosh aren't they bringing shame on their families.... Alternatively, they are like this because they don't have a husband to keep them in check. If only they had a man keeping an eye on them, this outrageous show of female defiance would never have got off the ground.

From my point of view, keep at it you unruly women!

Brilliant article - well done. The comments and votes show the public are supportive of your stand :) All very positive. I applaud your courage.

It's a good article. Sad that it's in the Daily Fail.

Wow, 2500 words is a generous amount of space, not your usual 20 photos and three paragraphs.

Shame about that Jane Fae talking about a 'ratcheting up of violence'. Usual TRA crap.

"It's a good article. Sad that it's in the Daily Fail."

Better than having it behind a paywall or website with little traffic.

I posted this on the other ManFriday/Hampstead thread, but I'll repeat here:

DH commented on the new article's headline, which he said spelled things out surprisingly clearly and at some length. I said it was probably deliberate because so many people had just skimmed the headline of the last one & then posted comments showing they'd completely missed the point.

Tbf, the Daily Mail has gone up in my estimation ever since this whole self-Id things kicked off.

The Guardian has gone right down.

Shame about that Jane Fae talking about a 'ratcheting up of violence'. Usual TRA crap.

I doubt most readers of the Mail will buy those accusations.

Great article.

I'd share it on my (decidedly hostile to GC views) Facebook, but it's the Daily Mail.

They couldn't talk anyone I know into getting out of a burning car! Damn my woke echo chamber social media.

Still, excellently explained. Pleasantly surprised by the DM.

From the article

She and her 160 or so fellow Man Friday activists balk against enshrining in law changes that would allow self-identifying men into female spaces such as single-sex hospital wards, changing rooms, loos, refuges and prisons.

This is a great example of the misleading and vociferous campaign against transgender people in the (far) right wing press. And also of the misleading aims of Man Friday.

The proposed changes to the GRA will not give self-identifying men (or even self-identifying transwomen) the legal right to enter sex segregated spaces.

There is a debate to be had over whether giving self-identifying men the legal right to enter sex segregated spaces is a good thing. There is no debate to be had over whether the government's proposed reforms would enable this - they won't.

There is a debate to be had over whether giving self-identifying men the legal right to enter sex segregated spaces is a good thing

Well done, that's the first time I have seen you admit that. Let's have a debate about changing the way the Equality Act is worded so this is no longer the case then.