Transgender Trend Schools Resource Pack Equivalent for HR Departments

[IAmDavidLewis]

Is there an equivalent document to the Transgender Trend Schools Resource Pack that would be suitable to give to HR departments and friends & family? By that, I mean a fairly concise summary of the legal points, science and evidence presented in a clear and balanced format?

If there isn’t, should there be?

We do. It's not as though it's protecting the trans-identifying children themselves, is it? We have safeguarding frameworks for very good reason - they all evolved out of abuse scandals. We're going backwards.

I think with regards safeguarding, the starting point should be the long established Samaritans' guidance about reporting suicide.

This isn't to make any point other than that there has to be better awareness and following of this.

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide

In a deleted thread (apparently to protect the poster's anonymity) didn't an FOI request demonstrate that the Scottish Schools Commissioner didn't endorse the trans approach to single sex spaces in schools but wasn't going to do anything to rock the boat?

ChattyLion
Your employers are acting illegally. Work toilets must be segregated by sex.

From Stonewall's Workplace guidance:
www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/trans_inclusive_policies_and_benefits_2016.pdf

www.stonewall.org.uk/supporting-trans-staff-workplace

Safeguarding 101. How in holy hell are these trans lobby groups getting away with going into schools and recommending confidential disclosure? This is indefensible.

I’m booked in for my update training as a safeguarding lead in October.

I’ll be asking these questions of the trainers, not least to raise awareness in case colleagues in other schools have been approached by Mermaids and their ilk to deliver training in their schools.

That's great Rhonda.

Safeguarding 101. How in holy hell are these trans lobby groups getting away with going into schools and recommending confidential disclosure?

Recent thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241837-Why-has-the-trans-lobby-been-so-successful?pg=2

This Stonewall guidelines seem designed to pit transgender people against everyone else. No mention of working with colleagues to find a solution or seeking out other people’s views or concerns.

I wasn’t sure I believed that Stonewall had become a trans campaigning group, but it is clearly true.

It's funny, because the other day I was reading an article in about 2013 by transactivists complaining that Stonewall didn't help them.

Miranda Yardley wrote:
mirandayardley.com/en/ma-vie-en-rose-ruth-hunts-rose-tinted-transgoggles-and-the-anti-woman-politics-of-stonewall/

I’ll be asking these questions of the trainers, not least to raise awareness in case colleagues in other schools have been approached by Mermaids and their ilk to deliver training in their schools.

Oh, do report back on how it goes. Confidential disclosure isn't even a matter of balancing the rights of trans-identifying children and other children. It's a direct risk to the trans-identifying child in particular - or any other child with a secret that can be used to manipulate them. Confidential disclosure is an open invitation to abusers, which is why we don't allow it.

Every time I remember trans lobby groups recommend this, I reach peak levels of fury and shock all over again.

I think the safeguarding concerns around disclosure are not as clear cut as around mixed sex facilities.

Confidentiality can be maintained so long as what is shared does not raise concerns about harm to self or others. If children disclose issues around their gender identity/ non conformity, this does not have to be shared unless their are concerns about harm. Best practice would be to encourage children to share their thoughts and feelings with their loved ones and people with whom they trust. The person who is party to the disclosure should work with the young person to help them with this.

If single sex provision is put in place for reasons of safeguarding (e.g. single sex dormitories) then mixing sexes because of gender identity is not going to wash in a serious case review!

MsBeaujangles
Safeguarding guidelines for children always tell adults that they must share information and never promise confidentiality to a child. An individuals doesn't know the context / background about a child. Disclosures about gender identity may not raise concerns about harm to self or to others. But that's not an individual decision. The institution may well decide to maintain the confidentiality, but that's after thought and discussion. School policies all say - share information and never keep confidentiality.
As LanceCleg has pointed out - this has been developed after decades of safeguarding disasters where children would tell an adult something and the adult then decided that they didn't need to share the information. They risk assessed by themselves and as a result some children were repeatedly abused. Individuals should never risk assess levels of harm to children by themselves - ever.
The arrogance of those going into schools undermining these fundamental safeguarding principles is shocking.

If confidential disclosures become the norm, abusers will do anything they can to get pastoral care jobs in schools.

I think women's rights packs for HR teams are an excellent idea.
I am in an email dialogue with a Head Of Diversity and Inclusion right now on a project and her email signature says:

My pronouns are she, her and hers.

I could tell that from her photo, she has no need to point it out. No-one else I have communicated with in the place does it.

MsBeaujangles

There are so many issues with the transitioning of teenage (and younger) years that keeping confidentiality would be the death of any teacher's career.

Opheliah thank you. Trying to be a bit circumspect for privacy but: The workplace provides single sex toilets. However, people who self identify as F or W can use the F or W toilets, which also in the same space have a shower.

If you get something on your clothes at work, or you want to cycle to work, you want to go for a run at lunchtime or go to an exercise class, or for whatever reason, you may need to shower at work. You can’t get changed in the shower area without being in some way physically exposed though.
You can have a wee or poo or change your tampon inside the toilet stall but it is not built for total privacy either. Big gaps around doors etc. There are also other things you might need to check in the mirror or sort out at the sink like falling down tights or bra straps, leaking breast pads on to shirt, shirt buttons doing up properly, mooncup rinsing out, etc. All in the general area behind the ladies loo door, not stuff you can do locked away inside a cubicle (for what privacy that is worth)

This thread I linked to covered it well I thought: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

I say that the HR allow self Identifying because to all intents this is what it is- no discussion of it with other users of the F or W toilets who are F, no GRA cert ever mentioned.

Because it’s not discussed, it’s just happening, I feel I can’t say anything to other female colleagues nor to HR and because people are already doing it, I am worried if I query it, I will be labelled transphobic or a bully because they may assume it’s a complaint about the individuals who’s already doing this.

Again not wanting to be too specific, in a way there is an individual aspect because I feel there are AGP colleagues taking advantage of this basically.

I have happily shared female toilet areas with cross dressing or transsexual people before in social situations where it was far from being off the table to talk about and it wasnt a problem.
but this is different it’s very uncomfortable but what way is there to weed out chancers without the in-principle of gatekeeper of a GRA certificate? (Obviously GR Act does not create perfect system but it has to be better than having nothing at all- where you can acquire a legal ‘sex change’ just by saying so.) saying that if the current TRA lobby argument is that it is transphobic for anyone to ask for a GRA certificate (which I have heard is happening in the NHS) then what is the point in having the GRA certificate?

I don’t always have choice of other places to use the toilet in the working day, and I don’t want to use the disabled toilet to make it unavailable to a disabled person.

I really resent not feeling able to talk or ask at work about this. There isn’t any (biologically female) transman at work but if they wanted to use the women’s I would not think twice about that. Absolutely fine.

I just don’t feel happy about big, biologically male people in the women’s toilets on the assumption of the women in there happily budging up (which was a courtesy not a right, historically, in my experience). It’s shit to have a clash of rights ‘resolved’ with no debate at all about it, just one side having their rights upheld basically for validation purposes and another’s completely ignored and unacknowledged when they are about physical safety (not validation). Not even worthy of discussion apparently.

I feel shit that I feel there is nothing to do, or even that i can safely say to anyone, about it.

Picasso we probably have the least ‘woke’ HR team possible but they are terrified of giving offence (or at least to some staff anyway ) and they don’t have enough legal nouse to push back even if they wanted to.

If they had a quick easy guide they trusted to what to do legally and what to say when challenged by colleagues then they could confidently point out the law to balance rights and they could communicate that transparently to everyone. It would help to stop the silencing about it which is horrible.

Confidential disclosures lead to abuse scandals. That's why we have safeguarding frameworks that ban them. Bring in the word trans and it all goes out the window.

This needs to be shouted from the rooftops. It’s an abusers charter. Almost all of the safeguarding guidelines were brought in in response to specific incidents in which children were harmed, abused or killed. They are there for very good reason and they work.

I am deeply suspicious of any group pushing for anything that will directly or indirectly reduce safeguarding provision. Any group specifically recommending or pushing confidential disclosure must be assumed to have an agenda.

"utterly horrifying stuff"

That Lib Dem account... has no one had a word?

Comment by Andrew Gilligan re Zoe O'Connell's complaint against him.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3263172-Andrew-Gilligan-Latest-bullying-transgender-complaint-swiftly-rejected-by-parliamentary-standards-committee

There is a complaints contact for Lib Dems and the TRA twitter account has been reported to it endlessly.

Predictably everyone has been ignored. Familiar much?

If they had a quick easy guide they trusted to what to do legally and what to say when challenged by colleagues then they could confidently point out the law to balance rights and they could communicate that transparently to everyone. It would help to stop the silencing about it which is horrible.

I second this and think it would be really useful to give examples of appropriate balancing of rights.