Feminism contradicts an equalist society: discuss

[Equalist1]

I’ve been watching a lot of threads lately and I have come to the conclusion that; feminism in its earliest form was a beacon of light in an unjust era. Fighting against clear inequality between genders. My question is, as the gaps reduce into non existence should we begin to describe ourselves as equalist as opposed to feminists.

I think this is a really important point to discuss as evidence suggest that the youths of the day I.e 0-30 years olds there are virtually zero inequalities between men and women, and, the variables that are unequal are because one side chooses to be different.

Thoughts?

I don't think that it is true to say that there are zero inequalities. There are inequalities. But I don't think that it is still the case that one sex is far worse off than another or that only focusing on the rights of one sec will lead to equality.

Did you ask the girls in the office?

As to Cleopatra - I read that she and Mark Antony formed a drinking club, so she may well have had the body of a roll top desk. I've always thought of ducks as kind of sinister (their sex lives - no. Just no.), so there's an argument to be made there.

Men are murdered by other men. Male violence is the problem, still. There is a huge disparity between levels of female violence and levels of male violence. Your comments do not address this.

I think this is a really important point to discuss as evidence suggest that the youths of the day I.e 0-30 years olds there are virtually zero inequalities between men and women

For me it’s maternity that really kicks off the inequalities.

Average age for first birth is in the late 20s in the U.K. Until then men and women in general have fewer caring responsibilities. And so the gender pay gap is smaller for people in their 20s than for people in their 30s & 40s.

I think society needs to encourage men to do more at home. Well paid paternity leave would be a good start.

Djlippy. I’m not ignoring physical or sexual abuse. As aborant as I find it. It’s important to note that in some societies sex work is prestigious.

Anyone that has been to the red light district in Amsterdam and talked to the girls and there families would know this.

Also you can’t judge a huge population of couples based on the minority of cases that dont have any physical or sexual abuse.

Again although there is a huge problem when these incidents occur. But they are like freak waves. Shocking when they occur and a problem when they do, but not prevelant enough to be a mainstream issue. If you were in India it would be. But in any of the westernised societies it is not.

Men are two times more likely to be murdered than women

Yeah OP, by other men.

Who is convicted of 98% of sexual assaults? That would be men.

Physical violence creates a climate of fear which enforces women's submission under men. It polices langauge. Women are afriad to speak openly because of mens reactions. Yes we know that you're a Nice Guy and you won't smash our teeth in if we laugh at your stupid tie in work but we know that the male ego is a fragile thing and if we undermine it we face consequences. These range from getting a reputation as a bitch or a 'ballbreaker' to threats of violence and literal death. This is an undercurrent of life for women so we are not free to make any choice we wish. We self censor ourselves all the time and police our behaviour. Should I wear this top to work, should I walk home alone at night, should I laugh at his shit joke? How is that a free choice?

“It’s important to note that in some societies sex work is prestigious.

Anyone that has been to the red light district in Amsterdam and talked to the girls and there families would know this.”

Ah, right. You’re one of them

Why is a raven like a writing desk? Discuss.

Assassinatedbeauty. Men are killed by other men more than they are by women. Unfortunately I can’t find a statistic that denotes physical harm in any form from one sex to another. I would suggest that there may be slightly less disparity between the two groups. The confounder here is that men are physically superior to women so when there is an attack the outcome is always worst as they have the tools to do more damage.

To quote Germaine Greer equality is a "profoundly conservative goal" for women.

Equalist1 wrote - "simply trying to push forward and innovate feminism into a fresh beacon. Feminism has become stale, by pushing forward with equalism we may just improve things for all...instead of one group."

Why does equalism have to hijack and silence feminism and change feminism into equalism? Why can't equalism leave feminism alone?

In the past, men had many more rights than women, including rights to abuse women. Feminism has changed this balance by winning some rights for women. Women still do not have equal rights to men in the UK (e.g. lack of bodily autonomy for women in Northern Ireland).

If equalism were to be adopted as the way forward, I think that women's rights would never catch up with men's rights, because equalism would give any new right to men and women but ignore that women are coming from a disadvantaged starting position.

Anyone that has been to the red light district in Amsterdam and talked to the girls and there families would know this.

Chat to a lot of prostitutes do you OP?

You have no idea. The majority of women in Amsterdam have been trafficked in from other areas. The 'happy slapper' is a myth created to make men who buy sex feel less shitty for their shitty choices.

Again, nothing you've said addresses the issue of a massive disparity in violence between men and women.

If you want equalism OP you should become a socialist. Maybe you should join the Labour party - I'm sure you'd fit right in!

DJlippy. Yes The percentage of sexual harassment toward women is shockingly bad and it’s is only getting worst.

The point is women are getting better at recognising sexual harassment, more support and better signposting when reporting harassment.

Conversely men are awful and recognising when they are being harassed. Although it is less prevelant it happens more than is reported. The pressures on men are to be respectful when there is any sexual attention toward them whether it is wanted or not. Not to report it and enjoy it (peer pressure). The issues are social and vast no quick fix. I agree with one of the other commenters that these issues will take decades to expunge.

Please don’t by nieve and assume this only happens to women.

Why is a raven like a writing desk? Discuss.

Because one of its legs is both the same.

Wait no, bugger it, that’s “what’s the difference between a duck.”

Assassinatedbeauty. I’m not trying to address the disparity in violence between men and women. It exists. It’s just an insignificant amount when applied the whole population. Not worth the time. It’s like talking about incidence of sunny days in England. Not enough information to be a mainstream issue

Feel free to push for 'equalise', OP, and leave feminism to feminists.

My suggestion for the first issue 'equalists' should work on, (which would I'm sure you agree from the victim stats already discussed be even more beneficial for men than women) is promote all possible means to bring levels of male violence down to that of women.

It'd still leave some knotty problems (many arising from males and females not being equally capable of giving birth) but it'd be a really good start.

"It’s just an insignificant amount when applied the whole population."

I'd like to know what your reasoning is for this statement. If men were violent at the levels women demonstrate then the problems of violence in our society would be almost entirely resolved. Towards women and men. Why do you consider that insignificant?

Djlippy, the majority? You’ve clearly never been. I’m into sociology and rights for all. I don’t focus on women but seen as sex always comes up as an issue (rightly and wrongly) I make it my business to understand the other side. It’s similar to extreme feminists. I understand there point of view I just think there’s a better way.

Post ... 'equalists' really do need to do something about male violence before they start lecturing feminists. Stop minimising it.

I have to say it's quite nice having an old school misogynist on the boards, makes me all wistful.

Your people are this way>>>>> everydayfeminism.com

Equalist1 wrote - "in some societies sex work is prestigious. Anyone that has been to the red light district in Amsterdam and talked to the girls and there families would know this."

I think that even many (most?) "happy hooker" prostitutes often complain that prostitution is regarded by most people in most societies as e.g. shameful, taboo etc. and very far from prestigious.

In which societies is calling a woman a "whore" a prestigious compliment, not an insult?

I suspect that if prostitutes in Amsterdam have been telling you that "sex work is prestigious" in Dutch society, something has been lost in translation.

“It’s similar to extreme feminists.”

What do you mean by “extreme feminists”?

Why are you ignoring domestic violence?

Assassinatedbeauty. It’s because it doesn’t happen enough to be a social problem. People walking dogs and leaving mess on the floor happens more often but I wouldn’t say it’s a particularly big problem with society. Right and wrong is important but the wrong has to happen a lot to be mainstream