Posie

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

I do wonder why all this outcry for a tiny amount of people who have a uterus and ovaries, elective dysphoria mastectomy and a beard. Oh wait it's that ole trope:

Transmen are only ever discussed when it comes to pregnancy. I get it!

"What happened to being allowed an opinion?"

You are allowed an opinion, and to express it. Other people are also allowed to call you out on it, point out the similarity of your opinion to Nazi policy, dis-invite you from speaking at their meeting on the grounds that your freely expressed opinion will damage their reputation etc etc.

I'm not excommunicating Posie. I am telling her what she said is wrong in every way.

also this:

"Posie says and has said some bloody stupid things. I support her right to say them, and my right to judge the hell out of her for it."

It's not about whether or not any of us agree or disagree with what Posie said (I disagree with loads of what she says and agree with loads of what she says) - it's about whether or not what she said disqualifies her from speaking at a meeting about proposed changes to the GRA.

Sorry Lang but Posie is old enough to know better. I'm disgusted by that sterilisation quote and I'll argue about it with her for so long as she reads and replies.

ok

What did she say that got her no platformed then? I'm dreading to think now....

the idea that it might not be a great idea for post-HT transmen to carry and birth a baby isn't exactly niche.

I agree with that.
I disagree (strongly) with the comment on sterilisation.

And I would prefer to be able to engage with posie and express why I feel that way without her being no platformed. I’m adult enough to be able to say ‘with you on x and y, really disagree with z’ and she’s adult enough to explain, debate her opinion and say why she feels that way.

And we are both (hopefully) able to say that we may end up disagreeing on the sterilisation issue and still engage on other issues.

I’m against no platforming. We need open discussion on these issues. That may mean opinions that some of disagree with get expressed. That’s OK.

Are you saying that any female with body dysmorphia should be banned from motherhood

What female with gender supports would want motherhood? There isn’t anything bar puberty that would trigger their dysphoria as much is there? The unique body changes, hormone changes, being able to carry life, everything about it is essentially a huge reminder of being a woman.

I could never have contemplated ‘fathering’ children. I didn’t want to touch or go anywhere near what triggered my dysphoria, let alone use it to get a woman pregnant.

If any woman does really want to experience ‘being a mother’ then maybe they need a bit more time to figure out whether they actually are dysphoric or are reacting to internalised homophobia, or not wanting to be treated like women are on this world.

What did she say that you oppose in every way though

speakingwoman

was it the 'racist and religious views'?

or

was it the unrelated tweet on sterilisation?

I suspect the point is that WPUK are (very hamfistedly) attempting to protect their brand.

They need to be able to refute all the trans nutcases who accuse them of being a hate organisation.

Posie's oeuvre is not exactly a secret. they'd have benefited from familiarising themselves with her work before inviting her to speak.

I do not believe in any kind of forced sterilisation.

However, for a pregnant woman to pretend they are a man and insist of being called 'he' while performing a role only females can perform is just fucking laughable.

If you want us to buy your pretense at being a man, at least put some effort in.

was it the 'racist and religious views'?

I don't know what these are said to be. That's why I'm asking.

The "unrelated tweet on sterilisation" is obnoxious.

"it's about whether or not what she said disqualifies her from speaking at a meeting about proposed changes to the GRA."

If she had suggested that gay people should be sterilised, do you think she would be qualified to speak at a meeting about marriage equality?

If she had suggested that immigrants should be sterilised, do you think she would be qualified to speak at a meeting about immigration policy?

I haven't formulated out my own thoughts here yet - but I'm thinking aloud about the parallel with the suggestion that all transwomen using female spaces should be post op, that is relatively common among some who oppose self ID.
Obviously any post op male is therefore sterilised.

I'm really sad that Posie's comment on sterilisation could be treated as if it were a mere provocation to reasoned debate.

Those were the reasons behind the no platforming though speakingwoman

Perhaps you should listen more instead of a knee jerk reaction against a tweet taken out of context. Parker NEVER advocated enforced sterilisation. I personally hate sterilisation as a solution, even those who want to do it voluntarily, especially in females.

But as Truscum pointed out if you have dysphoria then becoming pregnant would be a huge trigger.

"What female with gender supports would want motherhood?"

This may surprise you, but the urge to reproduce is very strong in some people. There are even women who have chosen death in order to have a child by refusing chemotherapy during pregnancy.

Wasn’t aware of the WPUK/Posie falling out. Clearly been living under a rock! Still not entirely sure what’s happened after reading this thread. FWIW I have found a few of Posie’s tweets a bit close to the bone at times, however nothing that shouldn’t be protected by freedom of Speech. I do find Posie’s style quite blunt, however she’s one of the earliest voices I remember having an impact on me, I also think her style is much more likely to get through to the average woman (and man) in the street than academic debate. The average person on the street is who we need to start very vocally objecting to this. An awful lot of the general public are going to be very on board with women don’t have dicks/hijabs shouldn’t be enforced on small children/taking T during a pregnancy then informing the resulting child you’re a man is batshit and abusive.

Posie you’re fab, sorry for whatever you’re going through atm.

WPUK not digging at you either, I appreciate all your work.

I'm sad you don't understand the issues actually involved speakingwoman

"Perhaps you should listen more instead of a knee jerk reaction against a tweet taken out of context".

Just leave me and Posie to argue it out will you? She at least appears to be able to take it as well as give it out.

Sorry Lang but Posie is old enough to know better.

I don't like that tweet either, even if it was less awful in context and borne from exasperation as Posie says.

But that's still not the point. The point is: does it disqualify her from speaking at a WPUK event? Events where trans speakers can say they believe trans women are women, which is another shibboleth many find outrageous?

I would say no. But I would also take issue with Posie during any Q&A and express my opposition.

There are even women who have chosen death in order to have a child by refusing chemotherapy during pregnancy.

I knew of one family like that. The devastation post her death was horrible for the family. That poor husband and his young son and infant daughter.

Also that was one of the arguments put forward by the so called 'pro Life' in Ireland's recent referendum. Guess what. The majority didn't buy it.

Should Posie have been no platformed for her 'racist' views - no. They are not what the WPUK meeting is about. However, I do understand WPUK need to keep their brand clean and Posie's views are now out there and being condemned which will reflect on WPUK if she spoke. A statement saying WPUK do not share these views may have been better.

WPUK handled speaking to Posie poorly, a tweet is just not acceptable when someone is a guest speaker, they should have spoken directly to her and discussed this.

I haven't posted about Posie's views on 'racism' but I have about her views on sterilisation because I think they are abhorrent.

I understand Lang.

Do we have any idea what DID get her no-platformed?

I’m against no platforming. We need open discussion on these issues. That may mean opinions that some of disagree with get expressed. That’s OK

YY

It's logical the speakers need to be on the same page, Posie could pose a chink in the armour. It's sad. Like I said I think WPUK could have spoken to her behind the scenes and calling or inferring to her as a racist has achieved nothing.

Full heartedly agree with this.... Whatever the reason, it is shocking that Posie was just told on twitter and then such an inappropriate public statement was made about her..... I thought WPUK had more sense: it serves nobody to make a statement like that which will be pounced on by TRAs and hotly debated by others - like us! Distracting from what they are actually trying to achieve.....

Posie has - and is - doing great work. She may hold views others disagree with.....

But surely the most important thing - especially in this of all weeks when MAN FRIDAY have been SHEROIC - to help shape the debate - rather than give the opposition ammunition which is what WPUK have done....Surely they could have just withdrawn her name, and announced something simple lie "Posie Parker is now unable to attend" or whatever could have been agreed with Posie - having had an off the record conversation with her about what both sides would say, given they (for whatever reason) no longer felt it was appropriate for her to speak..... And I do get the Muslim thing: We need allies, lots of them, to be successful - but then if it was the Muslim thing, surely it was old news...... Hmmm.....