Posie

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

Or, did I suggest that there was a need for the Catholic women of Ireland- the religion that is firmly against abortion in all circumstances and influential in the anti- abortion laws- to be on board and campaigning for their own rights

As someone from a Catholic (although not Irish) family it puzxles me deeply why Catholic women who are pro-choice continue to embrace a religion where they disagree with one of its fundamental tenets.

If Irish Catholic women are taking the credit for repeal are they taking the blame for voting for the 8th in the first place?

Oh and to be clear I firmly rejected Catholicism decades ago.

I'm only up to page 8 on this thread but I have to say it's really disappointing. It's infantilising Muslims and acting as if they are an amorphous Other, by worrying about their reaction to a view about hijabs on little girls. Most Muslims don't put hijabs on little girls anyway FFS. I'm sure they can handle being aware a gender critical feminist disagrees with the practice.
This is identity politics bullshit.
I'm with you Posie.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-29424165/muslim-hate-crime-rises-65-in-london
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hate-crime-muslims-mosques-islamist-extremism-terrorism-terror-attacks-a7989746.html%3famp

Sorry not sure what those links are supposed to show.

The CPS publish hate crime stats.

www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/publications/cps-hate-crime-report-data-2017.pdf

There were 479 religiously motivated hate crime convictions in 2011-12, and 478 in 2016-17.

Meanwhile ~10,000 annual racial hate crimes.

It's like the currant bun in here this morning.

I totally acknowledge that Muslims face prejudice and are at risk of targeted violence in the U.K. That does not mean that Muslim men should be exempt from any criticism of misogyny or anything else. A very cautious and socially responsible approach is needed yes, but it does no one good to pretend that there don't exist specific issues and problems. And if you think it will stop the far right by silencing all dissent, you're deluded. It makes it worse. It adds fuel to the fire. We need to be able to talk about it.

Wearing the veil is not representative of being a Muslim though. It is NOT compulsory.

I doubt very much primary school children would wear crucifixes and the wearing of a crucifix is NOT compulsory. Wearing a turban in the Sikh religion is though. Most Sikh boys wear a lesser covering.

"Having suffered oppression does not make it ok to oppress others and deny them religious and cultural freedom of expression."

Um, could you clarify what kind of religious & cultural freedom of expression is being oppressed and denied here?

Are you referring to the freedom of expression of sending 7-year-olds to school in headscarfs? Or something else that I have missed.

This is a picture of women in Iran protesting the forced hijab in 1979, days after the revolution.

I object to the hijab, like those women on the streets in Iran. Especially on 7 year old girls. This maybe because the muslims I know personally don't wear it. Or it may be because of photos like this. Or it maybe because it reminds me of the handmaids tale. It maybe because women in Iran are being arrested for removing their hijabs today.

I suppose that makes me an islamaphobe, as well as a transphobe.

And on those points you are right Ereshkigal.

All violence against women needs to be properly reported on the press. The problem is that the press cherry pick for various reasons. For example, not reporting the two large CSE rings involving young, white naked males it look like this is a problem only caused by one group of people (Muslim men).

I remember those attacks being reported. They are fairly well known now because they are exactly what my wildly racist mother always trots out when she wants to prove that Muslims are violent rapists.

She also voted for Brexit because she wanted to get rid of the ‘brown’ people from her area.

Nice.

Those who have been on MN for a long time will know that Posie used to be notorious for starting anti-muslim threads.

Usually some anecdotal rubbish about a Muslim checkout worker sneering when handling bacon or some sub EDL nonsense.

She can try to dress it up as "criticism of the religion" all as much as she likes, but she doesn't like Muslims and she used to talk to any Muslim woman who dared to disagree with her like dirt. We were all "brainwashed" apparently, or not allowed to talk about our lives in the UK until we'd sorted out Saudi Arabia.

I have great sympathy for her legal struggles, but her other views were always likely to surface eventually.

My heart is bleeding MissSusanSays

I throw those thoughts of yours right back at you.

I know oppression, I lived it. I know racial hatred, I lived it. I know religious intolerance, I lived it. I know misogyny I lived it.

No ToeToToe. That doesn’t make you an Islamaphobe.

But would you rip a hijab off a woman in the street? Would you call her disgusting for wearing it? Does she have the right to wear it if she wants to?

Lots of Muslim women don’t wear hijab.

We will probably find in a few generations that those wearing hijab are in a minority because Muslim culture, especially in the UK is changing.

But would you mandate that they must not wear a hijab?

YY Toe. It's hugely stark. I'm with you. An adult woman with autonomy who makes the free choice (which doesn't happen in a vacuum either) to wear a hijab does not mean that the hijab is not a symbol of misogynistic oppression.

MissSusan - do you have any comment on the cognitive dissonance needed to be a Catholic woman supporting abortion?

Or contraception for that matter- your church's line on that hasn't changed either.

Brexit won though. The people who voted for it won't get on side if you call something that looks perfectly reasonable to them (say "seven year old girls shouldn't be forced to wear hijabs") racist.

Doesn't mean you have to agree or accept it, just that engaging and explaining why you disagree would - imo - be more productive.

And I just feel sorry for you Elendon because you can’t see how limited and narrow minded you are being.

In this one thread you have proven all of the things the TRAs accuse gender critical feminists of- white, middle class women with no understanding of other cultures or ways of life.

Do you see how damaging this is to the cause?

Lass I was going to go down that route of argument as well.

However, on reflection, I'm glad you posted this.

do you have any comment on the cognitive dissonance needed to be a Catholic woman supporting abortion?

Sorry Lass. Not Catholic, although my parents are lapsed. They disagreed so much with the rules they stopped following them all.

Maybe that’s what will happen in the end. Can’t comment really as I don’t know much about it.

The problem is that the press cherry pick for various reasons. For example, not reporting the two large CSE rings involving young, white naked males it look like this is a problem only caused by one group of people (Muslim men)

I agree the way the media cherry pick is a problem. But the cultural issues should not be ignored, as they are sometimes relevant. And it is also relevant to report on where assaults have been covered up/dismissed/ignored due to the cultural element.

In this one thread you have proven all of the things the TRAs accuse gender critical feminists of- white, middle class women with no understanding of other cultures or ways of life

So enlighten me, as an ex Catholic, how you turn a blind eye to your chosen religion's oppression of women.

What 'cause' is this you speak of now MissSusan ?

Doesn't mean you have to agree or accept it, just that engaging and explaining why you disagree would - imo - be more productive.

This.

That does not mean that Muslim men should be exempt from any criticism of misogyny or anything else. A very cautious and socially responsible approach is needed yes, but it does no one good to pretend that there don't exist specific issues and problems.

I do agree with this. They should not be exempt and for example, I campaign for more awareness of forced marriages and honour-based violence. They should absolutely not get a free pass. I don't think this is the approach that Posie has taken however. It seems to be much more of a dislike of Muslims than concern over particular aspects of the culture that she has taken the time and trouble to fully understand. I also disagree that Muslim men are given a free pass. Yes, the investigations in Rotherham were completely inadequate, but since then, Muslim grooming gangs is something that has featured rather prominently in the media.

But would you rip a hijab off a woman in the street? Would you call her disgusting for wearing it? Does she have the right to wear it if she wants to?

Of course not. I object - not to an individual woman wearing a headscarf - but to the patriarchal religious concept of women covering their hair/faces - and the history of forcing women to wear one.

My muslim friends don't wear them - but do observe ramadam etc - so to me, it's not necessarily an important part of being a muslim. But I'm a white woman, so not easy for me to talk about - except anonymously in the internet.

One muslim woman saying "but it's my choice" trounces my opinion instantly. I don't have a leg to stand on - so I generally keep my mouth shut about it. The photo I posted makes me so sad though - as do the pictures of women in Afghanistan in the 70's, in western dress, compared to now in hijabs/niquabs. It is, in my opinion, one of the most blatant examples of women's oppression in the modern world.