Posie

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

@Picassospaintbrush I'm not seeing the telling-off bit? Just chipping in with my thoughts on the topic under discussion. Certainly no intention of telling anyone off - I quit teaching a long time ago to get away from being in a position where I was meant to do that!

thebewilderness I am not holding anyone else responsible for what she said. It may have seemed that way, but I am not. I am glad WPUK has distanced itself.

Also, Posie, here is some factual information about Tommy Robinson- I can see from Twitter that you are very concerned about what happened to him.

1. He was not sent to prison for a year for standing outside a court. He was sent to prison because he breached the terms of an existing suspended sentence for taking pictures in a child rape trial and broadcasting them. When someone is on a suspended sentence, that is what happens. They are spared jail on the condition that they behave. Robinson was unable to keep to this condition.
2. He admitted to an offence and admitted that his actions outside Leeds Crown Court could have put the entire trial in jeopardy and meant that vulnerable victims were denied justice.
3. Tommy Robinson is a massive racist and islamophobe. He is not some martyr for free speech.

Hopefully that clears things up a little bit.

@thebewilderness homophobic laws were not exclusively the work of male lawmakers, nor are homophobic views restricted to men, so I really can't see what you're getting at with that.

Also, my post above would remains the same whether it is men or women discussing the reproductive rights of trans men and trans women. My opinion doesn't change based on the gender or sex of the other people in the conversation.

Also i don't follow her on Twitter either. I think I watched a YouTube video of her and decided she wasnt someone with an opinion I could gel with over all.

Nothing she's done however justifies the way she was interviewed by the police over a tweet. The TRAs elevated her status -it's how I got to know about her as did many others.

If people want to argue with Posie or question her then they can do so on Twitter or on here.
Letting her speak at the WPUK meeting just means that a discussion about the GRA would be overshadowed by what Posie thinks about sterilisation, hijabs, Islam, etc, and her refusal to apologise. Then the headlines would be 'GC feminists are racists and support forced sterilisation' which is a massive misrepresentation of all the GC feminists I know in RL and allows the real issue (the GRA) to be pushed aside.

Argue with the European countries that require hysterectomies for women who wish to transition.

Not to be pedantic, but those countries don't require hysterectomies/sterilisation in order to transition, that's a misrepresentation of the situation.

You can transition in those countries and keep your sex organs and be a transwoman who "fathers" children, or a transman who carries a baby. That's okay, nobody's stopping you. They don't corale you all up and force transmen into dresses and to call themselves "she" unless they have surgery.

It just means you can't get a GRC and legal recognition in your new gender without medical transition. So it incentivises medical transition, if you want that GRC, but it doesn't preclude a transman retaining their plumbing and carrying a child as a transman if that is what they choose to do instead.

Yes please twitter convos should happen on twitter!

Shall we reach back farther for analogies for how women having opinions other people don't like are just like when men made evil laws?

Well, section 28 was made by a woman for a start. It is not just an opinion others don't like. It is an abhorrent opinion (both the comments on sterilisation and the comments on Muslims). It is also hugely misinformed. The majority of child sex abusers in this country are actually white men.

It also hugely undermines the argument that trans men are women and that GC women are happy for everyone to present how they wish, as long as same sex spaces are maintained. So why is it now suddenly abhorrent for a biological female who presents as male and takes testosterone to give birth to a child? I thought Posie's argument was that she is a woman and will never be a man. So it must come down to something else- namely removing breasts and taking testosterone so that she doesn't look like a typical woman anymore. How does that fit with the view that people are their biological sex and gender non-conforming is totally fine? How is that child suddenly motherless?

Thanks peakpants, saved me the bother of mentioning the Tommy Robinson issue as well. If WPUK associate with those views, they stand no chance. I think the likelyhood of anyone listening to women's concerns is minimal but an association like that will reduce it to zero.

RatRolyPoly just makes it damn difficult to live in their chosen gender. These countries have ID cards that show you as your birth sex and the cards are asked for a lot (when ID cards are mandatory, and carrying them is mandatory, asking for ID becomes an easy and gladly used security feature) and you have no legal rights whatsoever until you get legally recognised.

This is ridiculous.
Women are not the Borg.

You have to give up once someone starts banging on about Section 28.

Yup, berg and the Tommy Robinson thing has really brought out a deluge of idiots with such a shaky grasp of the legal system. TR is not being gagged or having his free speech silenced. This is not a Kafka novel. He is an idiot who committed an offence while serving a suspended sentence for a very similar offence. He gives not two shits about all the white perpetrators of sexual violence- just the Muslims, and he is not interested in justice being served, he wants to encourage lynch mob mentality. The longer he stays in jail the better in my view.

Anyone who believes he is some sort of victim genuinely needs their head examining.

By banging on, do you mean one poster mentioning it, once, in direct response to something someone else said that was plainly inaccurate?

Yes Charlie, undoubtedly it would be better for them if they needn't have to choose between living with the greatest ease in their chosen gender and their fertility. Although there is egg and sperm freezing I suppose, although I don't know what consolation that is.

I'm pleased it's not a requirement here, but even if it were you're probably right that it would be easier here to live without a GRC than elsewhere. I guess we'd need a Finnish transperson around to ask

The turned into a bit of a misogynist Gish Gallop, eh?

Posie is not my ringleader, and I’m not really surprised this has happened. She has a right to free speech and her being interviewed by the police was ridiculous, but her comments (on various issues) do often come across to me as crossing the line.

She creates more heat than light, and that is not what WPUK needs, however badly they may have handled this palaver.

You have to give up once someone starts banging on about Section 28

Why? I was responding to a poster who said that men were the ones who made evil laws. One of the most offensive homophobic laws was passed by a woman- I was just pointing that out.

Someone else drew an analogy between Posie's view that a trans man should not be allowed to have children and the view in the 80s that homosexuality was damaging to children. Seems perfectly sensible to me. It's not the same argument that Owen Jones runs about it- it's the fact that in both cases, someone is saying these people should not be allowed to have children.

A woman is guilty of inventing Lemon Curd. Would anyone like the recipe?

A woman I once met said something, once.

The turned into a bit of a misogynist Gish Gallop, eh?

Who is being misogynistic? Newsflash- criticising someone for their views is not misogyny just because they happen to have a vagina.

Countries which will legally require surgery to validate the lie that a person has changed 'gender' are scrabbling to find a surgical method to bring that lie closer to the truth, and failing both in factual reality, in legal honesty, and in ethical principle.

The solution is not to facilitate the lie without the human rights abuse of legally compelled surgery. It is to reject the falsehood of changing 'gender' entirely.

We are perpetuating and magnifying this car crash of an ideology with our ham-fisted attempts to be kind and validating.

It's doing no one any favours to try to force societies to pretend a lie and it is utterly unsustainable.

The only people we should be lying to about reality are those with late stage dementia for whom the truth is unbearably distressing.

The rest of us must make our peace with the truth and work out how to make a fairer world for everyone whilst acknowledging it honestly.

I had to look up Gish Gallop - not heard of it before.
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

Was that directed at anyone in particular Bewilderness? Or do you mean there's some sort of co-ordinated Gish Galloping action going on here?

A woman is guilty of inventing Lemon Curd. Would anyone like the recipe?

Not what I said. You said evil laws made by men, I pointed out that was not true. No misogyny whatsoever unless I missed something. No point in doing the recipe thing at me- I am not a troll and I am not an MRA.