Posie

[BabyItsAWildWorld]

Where the fuck has the Posie thread gone and why??

So posie has views which have got her no platformed by WPUK.

and now MN will not let us discuss her no platforming???

WTF is happening?? How scary is this shit?

The reason I can see given is that the WPUK decision was not to do with MN.

99% of threads are about people/organsitions/decisions not to do with MN. That explanation makes no sense.

Did Posie ask for it to go?

I thought she was getting mostly support on there.

Why is it acceptable for gay men in Iran to go through full sterilisation to cure them being gay. Or for gay women to be put on hormones? This is transgender in Iran, a predominately Muslim country.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29832690

It is not a word I would use except in a jokey way with family or very close friends.

I used it about myself in a jokey way and still caused uproar. Once bitten, twice shy!

Not true. We refer to ourselves as uppity women on a regular basis when discussing our interactions with men who slurp from the delicious chum bucket of outrage whenever their behavior is named.

I'm writing a book on women in leadership, it's called...

Uppity In.

I never knew uppity had racist connections either. I am also very uneasy about TIFs getting pregnant when on T and think of it how Tru described as surely the least likely thing to do if truly feel like a man. I kind of support what Posie said and don't believe she wants forced sterilisation. Not sure about WPUK stance here but would have preferred open debate.

If any of my family or close friends called me 'uppity' I would not find it funny nor would I consider it a 'joke'. My mother would never call me 'uppity'.

Mr Uppity, one of the richest people in the world, if not the richest.

Elendon

I have read your posts on here for some time and agreed with them. I have no idea what it is that you so disagree with my posts. I can only think that you haven't read them.

Or if there is a finer point I don't get, do, please, tell me

Clive Lewis? Is that the misogynistic arse who was involved in ‘the list’? Can’t really get wound up about anything said to him!

Prior to being educated on Mumsnet I’d only heard of ‘uppity’ in the context of Mr Men!

Not true. We refer to ourselves as uppity women on a regular basis when discussing our interactions with men who slurp from the delicious chum bucket of outrage whenever their behavior is named

I had always assumed the use was ironic- in that it is a disparaging term you would expect these men to use.

If any of my family or close friends called me 'uppity' I would not find it funny nor would I consider it a 'joke'. My mother would never call me 'uppity'.

It depends on the context/tone/situation where it is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. I have described one of the cats as "uppity".

For all those crying freedom of speech, posie said exactly what she wanted to say, no one stopped her.

Exactly. She has free speech. She has made her racist, transphobic views clear and people have criticised her for it. What you actually want is a rule that everyone supports whatever PP says.

I know you think of her as your ringleader but associating with someone like this is not helping your cause at all.

Who do you imagine yourself to be talking to?

I know you think of her as your ringleader

You might have been more persuasive if you'd not decided to tell us what we think. Especially when you're wrong.

Finland requires all people who wish to change their legal gender to be sterilised first. Yes, you read that right. Actual forced sterilisation of trans people. They're not physically forcing them of course, but that's the effect.

Japan, Switzerland, Greece and 18 other European countries also have forced sterilisation as a requirement.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this, unlike Posie who merely expressed her opinion on this issue, lawmakers in these countries do actually force trans people to be sterilised by making it a requirement if they want to be legally recognised.

Sweden and Norway did it until 2013 and then decided against forcing trans people to be sterilised. I don't know the exact arguments used for sterilisation in the first place, but clearly people changed their minds on it in some countries but not in others. Finland's parliament decided in 2017 to keep the requirement in place.

People in these countries were allowed to argue for and against forced sterilisation. That's not even what Posie was talking about.

I'm sure the two of us could have some heated arguments about stuff we don't agree on. We're not clones but individuals with our own individual histories and experiences that inform our own individual opinions. But I would much rather have the chance to hear her reasons and to argue this out than to no platform her.

Freedom is always the freedom of those who think differently from us. Rosa Luxemburg said this 100 years ago and it's true to this day. If we only defend the freedom of those we agree with, we're not defending freedom at all.

(And that nonsense claiming that stating that prepubescent girls shouldn't wear the hijab is islamophobic is straight out of the gender studies textbooks. You know where I first found out about this? From muslim women, the vast majority of whom are opposed to this and muslim female and male scholars who argue that there is no space in Islam, no requirement in Islam for prepubescent girls to cover their heads. None. And the Queen of Jordan is just one of many female muslims to write a whole essay on why there is no requirement in Islam for the hijab for any woman. Is she an Islamophobe too?)

The majority of trans men retain female plumbing. Partly this is because bottom surgery isn't all that great for F to M still. This means the necessary biology is often still in place when called upon.

This means that should a trans man want to have children there is an option for the trans man to try to carry a pregnancy if Testosterone is stopped. It's not always possible, but it can and does happen, and a fair number of trans men and their families have written about their experience of carrying a pregnancy.

The notion that trans men should not want to carry a pregnancy is a fallacy, not borne out by reality. Some trans men do. Some trans men don't.

The notion that trans men should not be allowed to carry a pregnancy is abhorrent.

The suggestion that a trans man's child would be damaged by the mere fact of their being carried in a trans man's body (testosterone suspended before and during pregnancy a short per medical advice) is utterly without evidence and really quite offensive.

I know it ruffles feathers when this comparison is made, but this is so reminiscent of the bad old days of homophobia, when it was argued that same sex couples should not be allowed to raise children due to the potential damage to the children of not having the accepted male + female parent combo.

This whole line of discussion is really weird. It's so usual to see the fertility implications cited as argument against adolescent transition steps, and yet here are post-transition adults choosing to make use of their fertility being told they shouldn't.

Who do you imagine yourself to be talking to?

Those defending her on here and holding her up as some hero. Have you actually read her tweets? Islamophobia is a made-up word to silence critics of Islam apparently. Imagine the uproar if someone said the same about anti-semitism? Loads of anti-Muslim tweets despite the fact that misogyny exists worldwide and in many different religions. Have never seen her very worked up about Catholicism.

She calls trans people ugly and calls for them to be sterilised. But yeah, she is neither transphobic nor islamophobic. Okay then.

PeakPants Nope sorry. I don't see Posie as any kind of leader and certainly not mine. I agree with much, not all of her GC tweets and posts but not much else.

She has done our cause no good with her sterilisation posts and you have not done yours any good with your assumptions.

Thanks SuperDandy.

We get a lot of insults here. We have gotton used to it. The rule book is enormous and complicated. The vast majority of the planet hasn't read it, we listen to it's byzantine rules daily and find it baffling.

But you go ahead and give us a telling off.

Okay, spontaneous I shouldn't have addressed that at everyone. I know many criticise her. But if you look through her TL on twitter you will see what her true views are and they are not pleasant reading.

PeakPants I briefly followed her after she was interviewed for hate speech. I don't now. I stopped following her as I was not impressed with some of her words. I've also not been impressed with all she has said here. She has been vocal and I can agree with a lot of her GC posts, other stuff not so much.

TL:DR I agree with you.

Have you actually read her tweets?

No. I do not know who she is outside being a member of MN just like you are. Why would I. Which is why it is absurd for you to be holding women here responsible for what another woman says on twitter.
Argue with PP is you disagree with her. Argue with the European countries that require hysterectomies for women who wish to transition.
Or you could even argue with what women here are saying instead of bashing women.

peakpants she ent our ringleader.

If you look back on the thread I made my opinion re posie's comments on islamophobia and race clear. And I agree there is a touch of the Hopkins about her.

But she is right in saying she is not a powerful figure so to full out hate on a woman with little power can quickly escalates to on line bullying.

But if you look through her TL on twitter you will see what her true views are and they are not pleasant reading

LOL - You've not been on twitter then?

I know it ruffles feathers when this comparison is made, but this is so reminiscent of the bad old days of homophobia, when it was argued that same sex couples should not be allowed to raise children due to the potential damage to the children of not having the accepted male + female parent combo.

Or even that time not so very long ago when women and children were the property of men and women had no right to the children born from their bodies when the men decided to sell them or give them away.
Shall we reach back farther for analogies for how women having opinions other people don't like are just like when men made evil laws?