Guess how I got suspended from the Labour Party?

[IAmDavidLewis]

Well, one of the weirdest days in my life concluded with me receiving a letter informing me of my immediate suspension from the Labour Party. They believe I may have breached the rules by subverting the intention of All Women Shortlists, Women’s Officers or minimum quotas for women. Unfortunately, this does mean that my political ambitions are on hold for a while. I shall of course be continuing to self-identify as a woman every Wednesday, as that is my gender identity...

I have to say a huge thanks to @namechangeah for all her help, guidance and, more importantly, proof-reading! I wouldn’t have gotten to this point without it. I’d also like to thank everyone for their support today. I hope this has helped a bit.

And the Telegraph called me an “activist”! Achievement unlocked

I don't actually know what you mean by that ItsAll. I think the point is that a trans woman isn't a man. But a man pretending to be a trans woman for a stunt is a man

Man = adult human male

Transwoman = a man who "identifies" as a woman

Man pretending to be a transwoman = man pretending to be a transwoman

How do you infallibly tell the difference between these men in all circumstances?

That's the point, you don't need to define it because he didn't get onto an AWS, and never would.

He wasn't applying for an AWS, he was applying for the post of woman's officer. He has been suspended pending an investigation. A decision has not yet been made.

But is Bunce actually trying to access women only shortlists?

Not as far as I know, but it isn't clear that he wouldn't be eligible, and it's not clear that David's application would have been questioned if he hadn't talked about his application in the Spectator.

The Labour Party has allowed some pretty dodgy people to be selected recently. They seem to be relying on the press to vet their applicants. However, I don't think relying on the Spectator is good long term policy for the Labour Party.

It's also not clear that David's application should be rejected. His identity certainly seems to be similar to that of many women - men too, but definitely some women.

I think the point is that a trans woman isn't a man

Wrong. Only trans identified males with GRC are considered legally women. But let's go round again, do!

Not as far as I know, but it isn't clear that he wouldn't be eligible, and it's not clear that David's application would have been questioned if he hadn't talked about his application in the Spectator.

He was set to be in the election according to the article. And would quite possibly be Basingstoke Women's Officer by now.

Clear as mud. A transwoman isn’t a man unless they have a dodgy intent? So now it’s not just gender feelings but moral worth too?

How exactly do we tell the difference? Objectively?

And how might one tell the difference if such a person entered the ladies loos? Is there a questionnaire that could be administered?

I don't actually know what you mean by that ItsAll. I think the point is that a trans woman isn't a man. But a man pretending to be a trans woman for a stunt is a man.

An adult human with a penis is a man
An adult human with a vagina is a woman

No amount of pieces of paper and wishes will change this.

HTH

Apart from the award...

Oh god. I am seriously dying of laughter.

Best. Thread. Ever.

Supermatch,

Thanks for sticking around. It can’t be easy being in a minority.

“a trans woman isn't a man. But a man pretending to be a trans woman for a stunt is a man.”

If self identification is all it takes then “pretending” has been abolished.

Two things seem to be clear about the Labour Party.

1). Some pretty nasty people have stood for official positions in the Labour Party
2). Nobody has been that bothered about vetting them.

For fairness, the Conservatives will put up with a lot of racism if it means holding onto a seat and the Lib Dems have had some awful MPs. Politicians can be a pretty unscrupulous lot.

He could have done exactly the same thing except for speaking to James Kirkup and, if elected, Labour activists would have called everyone on FWR transphobic bigots for saying it was ridiculous.

SMG can go around in circles as much as they like. It won't change the truth of it. The Labour Party has now declared itself gatekeeper of whose gender identity is genuine and whose isn't.

It's just absolutely perfect. Neither Monty Python nor Brass Eye could have done it better.

1). Some pretty nasty people have stood for official positions in the Labour Party
2). Nobody has been that bothered about vetting them.

This - with giant flashing lights and frantically waving red flags.

It's just absolutely perfect. Neither Monty Python nor Brass Eye could have done it better.

David Lewis - I hope your career goes from strength to strength. You are exactly what politics needs: someone brave, determined, posessing integrity and who won't be silenced. I salute you, you are amazing!

I hope you are enjoying this Wednesday!

Today I have been reading about Transwoman who go through sanitary disposal bins to find used tampons to put in their underwear.

I’m not for one moment saying that all transwoman or even many transwoman do this but how would someone know?

What's more - this man pretending to be a woman for one day a week has done more for women in this one 'stunt' than the alleged 'woman's officer' who is most definitely not a man no sir has done in 6 months.

I’m not for one moment saying that all transwoman or even many transwoman do this but how would someone know?

We record it and bring it here for SupermatchGame to vet. As SmG seems to be all knowing and THE authority on who is and who isn't 'genuine'...although they cannot actually define it of course. Definitions are SO transphobic unless the definition is fluid and non-binary.

Personally, I think BlanketyBlank is more apt but hey ho.

Today I have been reading about Transwoman who go through sanitary disposal bins to find used tampons to put in their underwear.

That made me feel so sick I skipped the posts referencing it. To think some sickos do it for shits and giggles. No mental health issues there is there?

SupermatchGame

Define 'genuine trans woman'?

Don't need to. David Lewis wasn't one. That's the point, you don't need to define it because he didn't get onto an AWS, and never would.

Well he should. Because the criteria is a transwoman is anyone who says they are. And he said he was.

That is the only criteria.

Even if he then said he wasn't. He could be ambivalent, or temporarily detransitioning. It's really no ones business. He met the criteria.

supermatch - Surely even you must see how ludicrous this is. You're wholy relying on the fact that you believe no one would fake it. When in actual fact, there is nothing to fake.

What would they be faking? In actual words.

You can't say faking 'that they are a trans-woman' without describing what a transwoman is.

And, at the moment, a transwoman is anyone who says they are. Just like David Lewis.

You must see how ridiculous it is. Your argument, that no one is pretending, is a red herring. Because there is nothing to pretend.

It can't possibly make any sense when the definition of something is anyone who says they are.

It's risible.

You couldn't make this up.

I feel the need for some Monty Python

Oh my life, I am cringing at the contortions going on here by those condemning David. I am clenching so hard it’s a fab work out for my glutes.

See, if a person would show some critical thinking and acknowledge that: yes, this has perfectly illustrated the concerns many people have and indeed, there clearly are points still to consider to ensure self-Id is not abused, I would have great respect for them.

I would love to understand WHY it is so unacceptable to be critical about self-id, even to just suggest any tweaks or improvements. No policy is perfect, it just isn’t. So to act like this proposal is spot on simply undermines the impact of any comment. Which is such a shame. Debate to soften edges makes better policy.

What is wrong with a third gender option? Surely this is more appropriate for transwomen's needs? You should be proud of your heritage. Like many women I am intrigued by that experience. Who else can speak from both genders? I've always found trans people speaking of their loss/ gain of privilege as very powerful. This should be celebrated. I think most men/women would appreciate such a perspective. No woman was born a man (except trans-women) You should be valued for this perspective...

Datun

He should at that, because as well as self-identifying as a woman and getting his application accepted he seems like a thoroughly nice chap. All excellent reasons.

@SupermatchGame How do you know that what I did was a stunt? How are you so convinced I’m pretending? I didn’t say either of those things to James.

I’m living my gender identity, my personal statement of how I see myself, and no one has the right to say that it isn’t true. You and others are making a judgement based on your prejudices against the friends I keep and the attitude with which I approach life. I have been living this identity for two months and I feel that accepting stereotypically feminine attitudes, behaviours and accoutrements has given me better peace of mind. You are discriminating against me because you feel I am the wrong kind of transgender person. I am clearly not enough of a woman for your liking.

If I had not gone to the WPUK Basingstoke meeting, if I had not told people about nominating on to the ballot, if I had not talked with James, then there is a possibility (a slim possibility, granted) that I might at this very moment in time have been the CLP’s new Women’s Officer. I was fully prepared to carry out that duty if the situation arose, even though I do not possess the biological reality nor the lived experience to qualify for such a position; I had sought the blessing of people whose opinions I respect before making that decision. I fully understand the consequences of standing for election. It was not a choice taken lightly, it was not a stunt. It was an opportunity for me to demonstrate to my CLP that self ID as a legal change of sex has implications that have not been thought through due to the toxic atmosphere surrounding this issue. If the members had still decided to vote for me after that, then so be it. It would be their democratic, informed choice.

As I said to James, I hope they would have been sensible. It’s been in such short supply recently.

WomanLifeIsGoodish

I know, it's absolutely hilarious.

It's also rather worrying that grown-up people indulge themselves in this way. With a straight face.

That they have become so desensitised to sanity, logic and normality they are actually prepared (sorry snorting here), to use words, and presumably some kind of education to argue the toss.

People like supermatch, who doesn't come across as particularly deranged, actually spend time and thought trying to formulate sentences to maintain the unmaintainable.

It's quite staggering.