Is this really a feminist board?

[GaspingShark]

I am a crap feminist. I haven't read a single book on the subject. Not De Beauvoir, not Greer, not Butler. The reasons for that are to do with a disability that I'd rather not go into, but I am a woman with a brain, and the Republic of Ireland is having a referendum on repealing the 8th this week. There it is, look, thirty threads down. And this "Feminism and Women's Rights" board's primary concern seems to be "What it will really take the peak trans the world?"

So I'm asking you, because I genuinely, honestly, cross my heart and hope to die, believe you are all better read and/or have more experience and/or more knowledge of being a woman than I do.

Doesn't that bother you? Doesn't it bother you that, four days away from the repeal vote, there's one thread on that in the bottom third of a fifty-thread page, and two or three dozen trans-related threads covering everything from Amnesty International to Jordan Peterson to exactly what Munroe Bergdorf told Venice Allan? Does it give you any pause for thought?

Page 3 contains the definition of who the trans umbrellas covers.
www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/first_steps_to_trans_inclusion_2016.pdf

I've never seen that, so genuine ta.

8 pages? Are you paying me?

I skimmed enough of it and it seems to say that anyone can be anything and no-one can say anything unsupportive. No wonder you are all so pissed.

I'm sure I'm in there somewhere, but pfffft...fuggit

Imagine trying to find out 'what kind of woman you are' from a leaflet.

Thanks thebewilderness that makes sense. I'm still learning a lot here.

Madbad does it matter "what kind of woman you are"? I don't want to define you with a narrow label because that's not how I want to define myself either. I want you to be free to just be you. Without wishing to upset you I don't see you as any kind of woman as you are not biologically female but I still see you as a person, as discrete and important, and you matter. But you don't matter more than me. I want to exist alongside you and let you live the life you want whilst I get on with mine.

Is that really such an impossible thing?

We all love a guess on this website.

@Yambabe With you 100%, I can converse with anyone, but I don't really have much to offer a Social debate. I like it here, and I know the mean girls are only joshing.

Yeah i agree with yam

Ive said it loads

But it doesnt matter because people like damn dont care and dont listen

They just call you a terf anyway and put words that youve never said in your mouth

And yes mad before you jump in I appreciate that it hapoens on both sides of any debate

My goodness you should see some of the politics ones !!!!

My post wasn't intended specifically for Bowl (sorry Bowl) but generally.

No worries lass - I wasn’t aware there was a hysteria thread. I know it’s a loaded word.

That MIL thread on AIBU, the MIL has threatened suicide and the DH in question is frantic with worry, and so will probably come to heel. Suicide is a terrible, terrible thing to threaten and yes, in that context and with the loud demands that one must be validated at all costs, the shutting down of criticism with the threat, and the total lack of awareness and high emotion, I would use the word hysterical.

Histrionic personality disorder for example (of course notbsuggesting for a moment thebposter has this, just using it to illustrate the language) ‘Associated features include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs.’

The focus on this board is Them, and not Me, but I don't believe many care to differentiate. There is no Transphobia here, but there is also no trust, or willingness to exchange or engage

There are some trans posters who are trusted and with whom there seems to be plenty of willingness to exchange and engage. OTOH, there are also plenty posters (mainly women) who sometimes get up peoples noses for some reason, or are disagreed with on some points. And there a a few regular male contributors, some of whom get on fine here, others who mansplain/sea lion and end up dominating threads who people get pissed off with. I think you're experiencing a variety of these types of responses... it's up to you if you want to think about whether you might want to adjust your posting style to get more constructive engagement on a feminist board?

LaSqrrl
Because I am a post op, MtoF transsexual, with a GRC. But whenever I have tried to say anything — even if it is a simple fact, not a matter of opinion — I have been bombarded with hate. And the facts go on being ignored. It's almost as though I am watching some bizarre competition to see who can be the terfiest terf of all.

^I had to run that through the radfem translator, I got:
"Because I am A Genuine Transwoman™ and have a piece of paper. Whenever I express the view that I deserve to claim womanhood more than you (because paper) I get bombarded with actual women who disagree with me! It's like I am watching a bunch of uppity women, trying to be the most uppity, and it hurts my feels."^

Shame you can't understand plain English. Maybe that's the root of your problems.
But what I meant is that I have lived with the reality of being trans everyday of my life. I have gone through the system, from the initial feelings of self-doubt and internal transphobia, suppression, counselling, waiting lists (and more waiting lists), RLT, electrolysis, name-change, HRT, GRS, and GRC. I don't know every last detail of the whole process, but it's pretty safe bet that I know a lot more about it than most people — especially those who have chosen to be transphobic.

And I have never "express[ed] the view that I deserve to claim womanhood more than you".

@ErrolTheDragon :) That's very nicely put, and good advice to anyone who wants to create a good impression here.

Variety is the curse and blessing of these boards, and any man posting here must seem like a polar bear disguised as a penguin to some of the other, more cautious penguins.

As a non-female, my motives and presence are under question, directly or indirectly, every time I post, from anyone in the room. (maybe a polar bear with a big flashing light on his head?)

If I felt like all I ever did here was continually justify my presence, I wouldn't post. Like you, though, I don't owe anyone anything here. If I upset some people's game of 'private women's space' from time to time then that does genuinely bother me, and I try to be considerate, but there's only so much faux-outrage I can handle. Actually, I dislike that "serious, sensitive issues" are waved about or thrown in my face like weapons sometimes. It doesn't change my opinion of the issues, but it does make it harder to respect the poster. I start seeing them as students instead of real people, and it brings out the worst in me which isn't very nice but is fun. If me being me or being here is unacceptable on a public website, then I suggest we need 2 internets.

Bowlofbabelfish
The TRA lobby wants to remove the requirement for a gender dysphroria diagnosis. What they want is de medicalisation Of transgender status - and when that happens then there will be no need to fund gender clinics.
No. It means that people can get a GRC just as easily as they can already get a driving licence. It has nothing whatsoever to dowiththe medical/psychological supporter those suffering from a medical/psychological condition.

And I know this is a bit whatabouty, and two wrongs don’t make a right, so forgive me for that, but it’s always striking me when treatment access is demanded...... massive wait times for female complaints are so common it’d be a joke (if it wasnt a tragedy.) 8 years I think on average to be even diagnosed with endometriosis.

That is due to GPs failing to recognise the symptoms.
Not quite the same issue as GPs refusing refer because of their "religious"principles (i.e. illegal discrimination). And definitely not the same issue as people actively campaigning for people to be denied access to the possibility of diagnosis — a particular problem in the case of young transpeople.

I haven't seen any articles in the press expressing outrage that "children as young's FIVE have been referred to a specialist" for any other kind of diagnostic process.

Ereshkigal
I think you meant to say, the male thugs who beat a woman in Hyde Park. For which one was convicted. DARVO. We see you.

No, I meant what I wrote.

Here's some of what the Evening Standard said about the court case:-

Ms Maclachlan, who blogs and tweets about gender issues, admitted grabbing hold of Wolf's girlfriend and kicking her,

However, Judge Grant refused to grant Ms Maclachlan any compensation, saying: "Compensation would not be appropriate,

Bowlofbabelfish
The court records clearly show that a woman was attacked by a group of men.

It’s not feminists doing the attacking and beating. Step out of your bubble and read the impartial reporting.

Here's some "impartial reporting":- (from the Evening Standard):
Ms Maclachlan, who blogs and tweets about gender issues, admitted grabbing hold of Wolf's girlfriend and kicking her,

However, Judge Grant refused to grant Ms Maclachlan any compensation, saying: "Compensation would not be appropriate,

The Judge also commented on Ms MacLachlan's offensive language in court.

Maria MacLachlan was guilty of nothing. She was the victim.

Tara Wolf was convicted, and fined for assault. And now has a criminal record.

Bowlofbabelfish
Ah ah... come now. Threats of suicide are a means of control. Do as I want, validate me or I’ll kill myself. Hysterical, abusive, cowardly. The stats on trans suicide have been debunked.
I actually referred to people who did not threaten suicide, but chose transition as a better option. As for "debunked" — I presume you mean you've managed to dredge up some dodgy report from the standard list of antitrans propaganda sources.

Am I an isomer, or a genetic control element in proximity to the gene I control? No? Then the phrase is nonsense. And grossly offensive. There’s no such thing as a cis woman. I’m a woman. Would you refer to a black women as ‘not white?’ If you did you’d be framing her as the lack of something, as a non-entity as a default. And she’d be quite within her rights to express her displeasure.

"Cis-" is a prefix, used in many fields other than chemistry. It is not offensive. "Trans" means "not cis", just as "cis" means "not trans" — perfectly symmetrical, and not offensive.

It’s woman. There’s no such thing as a cis woman.
There is: there are about 33 million cis-women in this country alone. Ofcourse, we could say "There is no such thing as transwoman: it's woman" — but that would make any sort of discussion difficult where we need to distinguish between transwomen and ciswomen.
Unless, of course, thetis your intention — to shut down discussion?

Still, I remain in constant awe of people who twist the facts so spectacularly.

No need to distinguish any further than transwomen and women.

Keep going Damnthat because the result is going to be very interesting. At least you can get a few words in when it goes quiet. I do sympathise with everything you've been through (and I'll probably get flamed for showing humanity) but I need to ask you; why are you on this womens board? Wouldn't you be better on boards where people have been through the same? What do you want/expect/need from women on here? It would be like me having a hysterectomy and going on a mens rights board.

Should have said me having a hysterectomy and going on mens rights board to discuss it.

Wow. Barefaced lies about the Maria McLachlan case.

Do continue though. There are lurkers out there

The problem is that women are being attacked on all fronts...seems that every issue is aimed at reducing us to handmaids . It is frightening and rights to abortion is just one aspect. The problem isn't about how feminist or not we are. I believe that Irish women will be active around their issues and know best the ways to campaign. They have our support. The Trans stuff is the extreme end of misogyny and our very existence and identity as women is threatened and the very few protections we have achieved will be lost, exposing us to even more violence. No one is not taking all issues seriously and we will continue to fight back however we can.

The business with 'victim must respect pronouns' in the court sounded impossible to win for either side. I think the judge was trying for a 'least-worst' option but I think it was the wrong choice. I've had to 'make nice' in the face of someone who'd punched me in the face, and I still remember the smirk as we shook hands (old bean). To be told to do that in court, by a judge?

(On paper, TRA and GC protests/counter-protests don't look that different from any other protests or activists groups. Judges aren't famous for being "up-to-the-minute", probably still think 'gangnam style' is a thing)

Rosy - talk of your hysterectomy would probably have you blasted as transphobic on a lot of feminist boards.

One MNetter was told off in her feminism group (real life, not online) for talking about birth injuries as a women's issue.