Is this really a feminist board?

[GaspingShark]

I am a crap feminist. I haven't read a single book on the subject. Not De Beauvoir, not Greer, not Butler. The reasons for that are to do with a disability that I'd rather not go into, but I am a woman with a brain, and the Republic of Ireland is having a referendum on repealing the 8th this week. There it is, look, thirty threads down. And this "Feminism and Women's Rights" board's primary concern seems to be "What it will really take the peak trans the world?"

So I'm asking you, because I genuinely, honestly, cross my heart and hope to die, believe you are all better read and/or have more experience and/or more knowledge of being a woman than I do.

Doesn't that bother you? Doesn't it bother you that, four days away from the repeal vote, there's one thread on that in the bottom third of a fifty-thread page, and two or three dozen trans-related threads covering everything from Amnesty International to Jordan Peterson to exactly what Munroe Bergdorf told Venice Allan? Does it give you any pause for thought?

A certian poster that i cant be arsed to name is trotting round redefining everyone

Oh my actual god look at my spelling

So "hysterical" is ok to use for trans women?

It’s accurate to use for anyone who manipulates the threat of suicide to close down any discussion they don’t like or control others, be that an abusive man, the poster on AIBU’s mil or anyone else. It’s cowardly, unpleasant and deeply manipulative.

This is identity politics writ large. My victimhood outweighs everyone else and I must be validated at all times or else.

Damn - what you have just typed out, or c&p'd describes exactly as I stated in my post: mixed sex accommodation - an option to be moved on request means mixed sex by default - with transgender girls (male bodied) sharing with girls. Parents will not be informed - to protect the privacy of the transgender girls.

Rufustheyawningreindeer

I can't find the hysteria thread- I thought it had gone or I've hidden it by accident. My post wasn't intended specifically for Bowl (sorry Bowl) but generally.

Oooh maybe its gone then lass

My point was going to be that as stated on the thread people's opinions on the use of the word varied so it wasnt fair to pick up on bowl saying it as she may be someone who bandies it aboit with gay abandon

But you didnt mean that so my point is literally pointless

Aboit

Fucks sake!!!!!

@Damn - I wasn't talking to you. BigBadDaddy said we were ignorant - I asked him what he thought we were ignorant of. No proper reply as yet.

Nothing to stop you weighing in and saying what you think everyone ought to know, of course.

But anything that anyone says on MN is received critically. People don't hold back from disagreeing with you just because it might hurt your feelings.

thebewilderness I don't exclude TIF's, they are women. The term TERF was meant as a slur, yes, but as I do want to exclude TIM's and am a radical feminist I don't care if they call me it.

Thanks Bowl and apologies if my post looked as if it was singling you out.

spontaneousgiventime
So that would be TIMERF then, not TERF?
That is why women immediately declared themselves to be MERFs,
Male Exclusionary Radical Feminists.
Having to argue with males that Feminism is for women only is just one symptom of how effective the backlash has been at undermining women's right to define their boundaries.

thebewilderness The way I see it is, the TRA wanted a slur for us so came up with TERF. For a while it worked. For me, and I stress, and have said before this is only how I see it, by saying 'fine I'm a TIM exclusionary radical feminist, so a TERF by their definition, I have reclaimed the slur. I appreciate others see it differently and I don't have any issue with how anyone defines themselves. I could be a PERF, a penis exclusionary radical feminist, but that hasn't been used against us - yet.

Duluth wheel behaviour does not a woman make. Jus' sayin'.

Call yourself whatever you like.
Don't be surprised when people think that you mean what you say and not what you mean to say.

thebewilderness Quite frankly, people can think what they like. I say what I think, I've had my arse handed to me but my views are my own and I stand by them.

Duluth wheel behaviour does not a woman make.

At this point I think the options are...

A. This person has no self-awareness and doesn't realize that multiple comments in a row that form a wall of barely coherent rage come across as an attempt at bullying people (let's be honest, female people) into submission.

B. This person is very well aware of how they're coming across and increasingly confused and frustrated that it isn't producing the intended results.

In answer to the OP, this board appears to be transitioning as a result of data breaches and MRA brigading from the Feminism boards to the He-Man Woman Haters Club.

I get the point. My first question was about women in STEM, a feminist topic very close to my heart as an IT worker and very male dominated from my interest as a kid all the way to now. More and more it seems that transgender issues is the most pressing feminist concern. I see strong feelings on here about it but not elsewhere, yet. Until recently my understanding was of people 'in the wrong body' who get as close to that body as possible and get on with life.

Hi Damn. Hope you don't mind me addressing this particular point?

Thank you for acknowledging my right to exist. Now how about those who are following me? the ones still in the endless queue for a first appointment at a gender clinic; those waiting for HRT; those who can't have surgery for some reason; those whose surgery went wrong; those who are still trying desperately to "be men" for the sake of their families; those whose GP's are refusing to refer them; or those who are like rabbits in the headlights -- desperately miserable as "men", but too terrified of the hatred they see and hear of every day to take that first step through the GP's door.

I may be slightly against the tide here although I've seen others agree with me, but personally I would like you and those who follow you to have all these things. I would like you to be free from discrimination and hate but I believe that anything like that that you experience will be likely to come from men, not women.

I would like to see TRAs campaigning for the right to be trans, not the right to be women. I would like to see you campaign for your own spaces, or for neutral spaces in addition to the current sex-segregated ones. I'll happily share spaces with you, but I appreciate that not every woman (for many and various reasons) can say the same. I'll happily stand alongside you for access to your own safe spaces.

But I won't budge over for you, because in some cases sex is important.

I don't think self-id is needed because a) it doesn't give trans people any more protection than they currently have b) it will potentially make it harder for genuinely dysphoric people to access the services they need and c) without some kind of associated safeguarding I do think it would be too open to abuse.

I'm not a rad fem, and I don't really understand what trans people are being excluded from. Yet somehow because I don't believe that trans women are women and I think gender is a combination of social construct and personality I seem to have become the enemy.

I'm just Ms Average. There are lots of me out here. I'm weighing up the evidence. And what I am seeing is that the people who purport to be speaking for you appear to be aggressive and to condone violence to make their point. The women I am listening to on here condone discussion, even if I don't agree with everything they say.

I keep seeing a phrase on here that really resonates with me - rather than identifying AS women I would rather see trans women identify WITH women. I don't hate you I don't know you. But I've yet to see you post anything that makes me want to defend you on here.

I'm glad you're here as I think it's always good to hear another viewpoint and this forum shouldn't be an echo chamber. But I do find you very entrenched in your opinion and you don't seem to actually be listening to "our" side of the argument, at all. Is there really nothing being said here that's making you go "oh, hang on a minute?"

I've seen others agree with me

Count me in that.

"But I won't budge over for you, because in some cases sex is important. "

I'm not asking you to do that, but no-one takes any notice. TRA is the loud voice - they are nothing to do with me or anyone i know. The focus on this board is Them, and not Me, but I don't believe many care to differentiate. There is no Transphobia here, but there is also no trust, or willingness to exchange or engage.I only serve to be whatever I say I am not. I can't be bothered with the 20 Questions approach to knowledge and understanding, if the static in the room gets too loud.

I'm not a rad fem, and I don't really understand what trans people are being excluded from.

Feminism! Feminism is what the radical feminists were excluding transgender identified males from along with the rest of the males.

Having taken over LGBT spaces on the internet the transgender advocates and "nice guys" were flooding the Feminist blogs and forums with demands that Feminism must be all things to all people and stop excluding important Feminist allies like Hugo Schwyzer and the transgender advocates at "Camp Trans". Those blogs and forums are empty shells of their former selves because women got tired of having the same conversation with MRAs every day.
Basically the same tactics they are using here.

TRA is the loud voice - they are nothing to do with me or anyone i know. The focus on this board is Them, and not Me, but I don't believe many care to differentiate.
Take it up with Stonewall and the lawmakers who accept the Stonewall definitions for who qualifies under the law as transgender.

We are arguing against the harm being done to women and children by the hopefully unintended consequence of poorly written law and the amendments being contemplated to the poorly written laws.

It makes no sense to complain that women here are lumping you together when it is the laws that have done so.

I am "lumped" nowhere but here, and mostly by you.

I have no use for Self-ID, so why am I here? It's 2am, I'm working and I have personal issues. I post at all hours, much like yourself.

What's up?