Is this really a feminist board?

[GaspingShark]

I am a crap feminist. I haven't read a single book on the subject. Not De Beauvoir, not Greer, not Butler. The reasons for that are to do with a disability that I'd rather not go into, but I am a woman with a brain, and the Republic of Ireland is having a referendum on repealing the 8th this week. There it is, look, thirty threads down. And this "Feminism and Women's Rights" board's primary concern seems to be "What it will really take the peak trans the world?"

So I'm asking you, because I genuinely, honestly, cross my heart and hope to die, believe you are all better read and/or have more experience and/or more knowledge of being a woman than I do.

Doesn't that bother you? Doesn't it bother you that, four days away from the repeal vote, there's one thread on that in the bottom third of a fifty-thread page, and two or three dozen trans-related threads covering everything from Amnesty International to Jordan Peterson to exactly what Munroe Bergdorf told Venice Allan? Does it give you any pause for thought?

those who think that myths become fact if you shout them often enough,

I wish TRAs would stop shouting the myth that transwomen are women and that humans can change sex. I'd love peaceful coexistence and support for all women and all gender dysphoric people of either sex and gender nonconformists.

Or all fur coat and no knickers

Can't think which one I prefer

"@spontaneousgiventime
MadBadDaddy Blowing raspberries to posters on an adult message board? Really? That's you in my ignore bin, I like to discuss things with other adult women not tantruming toddlers."

You sound just like my kids' Reception teacher. She wouldn't have silenced and hectored and judged every syllable I utter.

TerfTerfTerf
I am not too worried about that because I think erasure of women's rights is REALLY BLOODY IMPORTANT! And the more exposure it has, the better!
Then why not talk about that, instead of wasting so much time and energy trying to make trans people's lives worse?
I very much feel we are protesting this issue on behalf of all women, because it really will affect each one to some degree. What? You think all women enjoy seeing a bunch of bullies messing up the lives of a tiny minority just for fun? I think you are wrong. Most women are far, far better than that.

t's very easy: just stop. That's all you need to do. If you all stopped this ridiculous campaign of abuse and misleading propaganda,

Short answer: no.

Longer answer: what abuse? Please do list a few examples of actual abuse you’ve had on feminist boards. Actual incitement to hatred? Actual threats? There aren’t any. ALL the abuse is coming from the TRA side - songs on you tube glorifying kerb stomping women who won’t comply. Baseball bats with terf on. Threats to livelihoods. Six foot males punching 60 year old women to the floor. Masked activists blocking women’s access to peaceful assembly.

And no we won’t stop talking about issue that affect our safety. Our legal protections. The safeguarding of our children. If you think that argument, discourse and discussion is ‘a campaign of propanda and abuse’ then I can only laugh hollowly at your naivety and self centred ness. A campaign of abuse is NOT civilised discourse on a parenting site.

Cis by the way is grossly offensive. Grossly so.

Short answer again: listen carefully. NO

Do you blow raspberries at your kids reception teacher then, Mad?

"Do you blow raspberries at your kids reception teacher then, Mad?"

Never when she was looking, and then I blamed one of the kids. :D

smithsinarazz
in what respects are the posters on this board ignorant of trans issues? What is there that you know and we don't? 'Cos, you know, you could try to explain rather than just being insulting.
Well, without blowing my own trumpet too much, I should thjhink there's probably quite a lot of things I know that you don't — just like many/most of you probably know a lot more about breastfeeding, giving birth, and so on. Because I am a post op, MtoF transsexual, with a GRC.
But whenever I have tried to say anything — even if it is a simple fact, not a matter of opinion — I have been bombarded with hate. And the facts go on being ignored. It's almost as though I am watching some bizarre competition to see who can be the terfiest terf of all.
And while that goes on, there is no hope of any real discussion.

So has Gasping found time to pop in the the most recent thread about the repeal vote and join in the conversation?

Huh, figures.

You think all women enjoy seeing a bunch of bullies messing up the lives of a tiny minority just for fun? I think you are wrong. Most women are far, far better than that.

We're not messing up anything for fun - we're standing up for the safety of woman & girls. Because at the moment, (to give just one example), there are guidelines for the Girl Guides to allow mixed-sex sleeping of teenagers without parental knowledge.

To give another, males are being put in prisons with females because they identify as female - despite being pre-op. Article.

Never mind women, most people will not be ok with this. It flies in the face of current safeguarding rules.

all fur coat and no knickers

I prefer this 'un.

The DARVO never ceases to amaze. Oh, I'll just go and join a board full of women, hurl insults at them, make ignorant assumptions about their politics, use male pattern commanding language and generally behave just like every other boorish male they've ever met...

... and then complain I'm being overwhelmed by hatred.

JFC.

It's like moths around a lantern.

There are constant vociferous denials that there is any transphobia involved, claiming that no-one has any concerns with post-operative trans women whatsoever, just self identification.
Usually in response to accusations of transphobia when a woman has the temerity to state that cosmetic surgery does not make a male into a female.
Then, every so often, people can't hide their feelings and become vicious about post operative transwomen.
By saying that cosmetic surgery does not make a male into a female. The opinions stated by most transsexuals on this subject are ignored for obvious reasons.

Inevitably, those threads get zapped.
Except when they do not.
And subsequently, if you dare to cite them as evidence of transphobia, you get responses denying that such threads ever existed and sneering because there isn't any evidence.
MN removing threads makes it hard to prove that MN is transphobic and must be destroyed. However, claiming that the deleted posts and deleted comments prove that MN is transphobic for not banning posters who say that cosmetic surgery does not make a male into a female works almost as well, so there is that.

But whenever I have tried to say anything — even if it is a simple fact, not a matter of opinion — I have been bombarded with hate.

You keep calling the women talking here Nazis and alt right and you are effing offended by our response and then call it being bombarded with hate? Your behavior here speaks for itself.

ToeToToe
We're not messing up anything for fun - we're standing up for the safety of woman & girls.
But you aren't "standing up for the safety of women and girls!"

Whatever the proposed changes the GRA might be (and none of us know that, yet) they are extremely unlikely to make any difference whatsoever to anyone other than trans people applying for GRCs. They won't change the laws regarding discrimination, rape, domestic violence, sexual assault, or indecent exposure, or anything else. They won't make it transphobic for someone to say "no" to a potential sexual partner or force doctors to give inappropriate medical treatment to kids, or any of these scary bogeymen that are being suggested.

All they are likely to do is make getting a GRC comparable with getting a new passport or driving licence.

Because at the moment, (to give just one example), there are guidelines for the Girl Guides to allow mixed-sex sleeping of teenagers without parental knowledge. The guidelines actually say The option of having an alternative accommodation arrangement is open to any young person if it is requested., but make the point that trans people are particularly likely to feel uncomfortable sharing with others.
To give another, males are being put in prisons with females because they identify as female - despite being pre-op. You seem obsessed with this pre-op/post-op issue. You do realise that for most TSs, it takes about five years or more to get from GP to surgeon? And waiting times are generally getting longer, not shorter. You can't realistically assume that someone who still has their "bits" is hanging onto them by choice, because it simply isn't true. Nor can you assume that their bits are functional!

Of course there are issues that need to be discussed. But they won't be discussed by hurling abuse to shout down evidence, or by outlawing the words that are required for the discussion.

Of course there are issues that need to be discussed. But they won't be discussed by hurling abuse to shout down evidence, or by outlawing the words that are required for the discussion.

I wish someone would get that across to the #nodebate folks, the people who run block lists, the people campaigning to shut down discussion on MN (who seem to use some pretty underhand tactics).

hey are extremely unlikely to make any difference whatsoever to anyone other than trans people applying for GRCs.

They are, unfortunately going to have far reaching effects. There will be multiple knock on effects, most of them unintended consequences, which significantly affect the safety of women and children.

That’s why women are resisting this. It isn’t hatred Of transpeople. Transpeople exist and they should have the same rights as anyone else to exist safely and peacefully in society. What’s not ok though is to damage the protections of one group to extend the protections of another. That’s what self ID and the GRA changes would do.

thebewilderness
You keep calling the women talking here Nazis and alt right and you are effing offended by our response and then call it being bombarded with hate? Your behavior here speaks for itself.
Please support that with evidence. Direct quotes with the times and dates of the posts would do.

Whatever the proposed changes the GRA might be (and none of us know that, yet) they are extremely unlikely to make any difference whatsoever to anyone other than trans people applying for GRCs.

So why bother your brain with the women? Surely if it makes literally no difference to anything then there is no discussion to be had?

But they won't be discussed by hurling abuse to shout down evidence, or by outlawing the words that are required for the discussion.

You mean by calling us Nazis and outlawing the word 'woman'? - oh hang on - I thought it made no difference so there IS no discussion? Confused.com

I suggest you request copies of your deleted posts from MNHQ.

I suggest you request copies of your deleted posts from MNHQ.

LOL! Quite!