Munroe Bergdorf 'What Makes a Woman' Channel 4 16/5

[R0wantrees]

Extract from Radio Times:
www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-05-16/what-makes-a-woman-review-munroe-bergdorf-transgender-activist-debate/

"There are more moments of vulnerability when Bergdorf attends a discussion by a feminist group called We Need To Talk. There’s a real sense of menace in the air as transgender people gather outside to protest the meeting of so-called TERFS – Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists – who believe trans women are not female but are in fact men threatening to infiltrate women’s space.

Bergdorf is extremely articulate in one to one interviews so it’s a shame she doesn’t feel able to stay and debate them, but it’s also understandable – the atmosphere inside the meeting is toxic and she’s surrounded on all sides.

“When we [see] events like this, which directly are designed to deny [transgender women’s] very identities and the fact that we even exist, it’s extremely hurtful and concerning,” she says as she leaves. But she later sits down with one of the organisers, Venice Allan (aka Dr Radfem, just in case you were in any doubt).

They have an interesting debate about female and transgender rights, but it ends tellingly with the good Dr declaring “feminism is about women!” when surely feminism is about equality....

Concludes:
What Makes a Woman provides a valuable grounding in the ins and outs of the transgender debate for those of us who could use it – but it’s also a profile of a intriguing, sensitive, likeable person who is herself still on a journey of discovery."

What Makes a Woman is on tonight, Wednesday 16th May, at 10pm on Channel 4 and available afterwards on All4

Pretty good review here

amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/may/16/what-makes-a-woman-review-a-show-that-asked-extraordinarily-complex-questions?__twitter_impression=true

Did they give any detail on what that means?

No. It was Science. And far too complicated for a lady brain to understand.

She says she found it hard to deal with her leg hair at school Well so did i But because im XX woman i was called gorilla and all sorts of nasty names. DM wouldnt let me shave.

As a woman in her 40s i now have to deal with chin hair as well

Final para of the review

So, does society force you into being a woman if you don’t identify as masculine? We surely need, then, a sequel: what makes a man?

Pretty spot on.

Crikey, MB really really wants to be a woman and cannot possibly settle foronly being trans. There seems to be this assumption that you start out as a man then you are trans and then you are a woman. Utterly deluded and misguided and very sad (oh and infuriating but having every bone in your face broken to look more feminine?! GRIM)

Im watching again cos i missed the first half hour BLIMEY the surgery.

I was pleasantly surprised by the fairly neutral tone of that. MB would be OK if MB was happy with being a trans woman rather than insisting on being a woman and the self I'd crap and being a woman with a penis nIt all seemed so artificial and appearance focussed. Does MB have a real job?

On Twitter, Munroe says

Before we started production, I made the requests with Antiodote and Channel 4 that the director and majority of production staff must be female. That I must be made aware of all language and content used within the film. And that I must narrate and present the entire feature.

What kind of science is that? Based on the brain scan and a questionnaire?

But even then, MB didn't 'fit' the female category, but the trans one.

Also, "I feel like I'm a woman, so I'm going to have surgery to remove.. my forehead?! ... but I won't tell you about my penis because it's personal?" If MB had transitioned (in the traditional sense), I strongly suspect they'd be keen to tell us so. And if you're making a personal essay style doc about being a trans woman, surely that's central?

Oh and the Lucy Mangan review is pretty spot on. The Grauniad is slowly back-pedalling

The penis is personal.

Ok then.

I think MB didn't realise that women aren't always passionate playful and receptive to flattery. That's a man's idealised woman as toy thing

That I must be made aware of all language and content used within the film. And that I must narrate and present the entire feature.

MB is going to regret saying that when some faction or other of TAs takes offence.

I spotted at least one plus size model in that fashion show which was great.

Shame they couldn't find a bunch of production staff that are female like Danielle Muscato!

I imagine they will. They won't like the brain scan thing because they know full well most of them wouldn't meet the criteria. The heterosexual ones may know that in that limited research done on trans identified males which controlled for sexual orientation, it doesn't suggest that they have anything in common with women in terms of brain structure.

Anyway, so being a woman is about looking feminine. Glad we've sorted that out.

I did think she gave Venice a fair hearing, to be fair. And she showed lots of footage of Miranda - although it's fairly obvious Miranda is a transexual, Munroe did not make that explicit on the show, whhich perhaps she should have done.

But she seemed very disapproving of Posie's question "Does my 11yr old daughter have the right to use a female changing room without seeing an adult penis?" - or perhaps she felt uncomfortable? Because it's a brave person that would actually answer "No" to that. Pretty much any other context, it would be indecent exposure.

And this is the crux of it, for me. (As well as other ways women are losing out to transwomen - sports, AWS etc)

Will stop waffling on now - DH has gone to bed, so I've no one to chat to about it

But the important thing is Gogglebox has just come on - and I have never watched this programme in my life. (How have I missed this? I mean I'd heard of it, obvs) It's good

The twitter comments - ouch. I think people realise women are women and TIM's are TIM's.

Decent enough review there from the Graun. I wish there was a proper examination of real concerns as part of this genderquake nonsense though.

Pretty much any other context, it would be indecent exposure.

I don't see it as any different. To me this is a concerted push to remove voyeurism and indecent exposure as offences in sex segregated spaces.

Good review by Lucy. Glad the Guardian women I enjoyed reading haven't all been brainwashed by Owen

Goggle box is great, a window into people's real interpretations of tv land. It'll be interesting to see what they make of Genderquake.

I'm missing it right now though :(