Girl Guides Panel discussion at Speakers house.... woman, male, woman, male, male, male....

[therealposieparker]

A woman who is blocked from view, Phillip Bunce who is sometimes dressed as female, Maria Miller MP, Trans woman Bex or Aimee (they look the same to me) and a bloke. They are discussing trans inclusion and the girl guides.

I think the benefit of all this trans debate is it's showing up the unfitness for purpose of many groups that most had considered took safeguarding of children and girls seriously.

I think it's down to the dumbing down (read: postmodern obsession) in the academy. Graduates of elite institutions fill the top positions in corporations, institutions and everywhere else. Generally speaking, those that lean right go into industry or corporate work, right wing politics, or right wing media orgs. Those that lean liberal/left go into left wing politics, left wing media orgs, or third sector orgs. And these days, those that lean liberal/left have pomo-addled brains supplied by the dominant ideology in the academy.

You'll notice that the Guiding policy is top down; being imposed from above despite extensive grassroots objections. It's because all these third sector orgs are being led by posh postmodernists. That's why nowhere in the corporate third sector world is safe from this shit - from Amnesty and Oxfam and Save The Children to the Guides - all taken over by social constructionist bullshit. It's all connected.

If one went missing on a camp and they had no photos just what description would they give the police and people looking for the "girl"

Would they really risk missing finding the kid? when automatically people would rule out any boys they seen as irrelevant to statements...

Some Scouts have been mixed for a long time. In our case, both Cub packs are mixed and have been since they were set up (decades ago).

We have 2 Scout packs, and they are split by gender: 50+ years ago, it was only a boys troupe when it started, then a girls troupe was established about 30-odd years ago and they were eventually allowed to share the Den (as their own troupe within the group), and the Cubs followed that and were mixed from the start, with a second Cub pack being formed due to demand and also being mixed.

The Scouts (we have both Scouts and Venturers together, so 12-18 age range) go on Summer Camp separately (the girls go down as the boys come home to the same place), but camp alongside each other for Easter Camp and do a lot of activities together at other times in the year (and they all help to load the 40' truck to go on summer camp, and do the boat maintenance in winter, etc), while having weekly meetings and other activities completely separate. So everyone knows what to expect going into it.

When I was a Guide, there was an occasional summer camp where the DS or DBro of a Leader came along as well - they were Scouts and they stayed in their own tents with the Leaders tents between theirs and those of the Guides, and parents were informed beforehand. I would be very unhappy as either a Leader (and I was one before I left Guiding at Uni) or a parent if I wasn't informed of DCs who are not born as girls were staying in the same tents as those who were. I don't think I would have a problem if DCs who were born as boys but who are trans and who are transitioning properly were able to join but stayed in their own tents until a complete transition was done (and that those DCs should be actively transitioning, not just saying that they feel they are a girl).

I am not the best at explaining myself, and particularly not in relation to the right words to use, so I hope I have not offended anyone in my clunkiness, but it does seem as though Girl Guiding UK is a bit daft on this one. (TG it is not a legal issue in Ireland yet).

Tweet from Bex Stinson (Head of Stonewall's Trans Inclusion)

Well yes, children please be yourselves. Do not let people convince you that being yourself means you have to take drugs and have surgeries, or that your personal tastes mean you are actually the opposite sex.

Feminists have no issue at all with people being 'gender non-conforming', many feminists are this themselves! Unless the 'hate' Bex is talking about is coming from homophobic men mind, then I could agree that there is a fairly large amount of hatred. Though its still 'terfs' who get the blame. Gotta wonder why that is

It's just aimed at closing down Guides right? Stop a new generation of confident girls and women?

Take the money, the infrastructure and force the girls only organisations to start from scratch

There's no way to protest except by leaving (they win anyway). Only a legal challenge could do it and who has the cash for that?

Closing down Guides or making them unusable for lots of girls, and a place where female guiding leaders can no longer connect and chat. Every space where women can speak to each other without male supervision/spying seems to be under attack.

They want girls to grow up thinking of it as normal to have no connection to the women around them. I think it's a backlash because women's history is becoming more spoken about and women are becoming more involved in politics.

And obv for some it's a fetish. I think it's always worth naming that.

@Picassospaintbrush

It makes my skin crawl to imaging working for Bunce - amazing how his behaviour can be seen as normal

He has made it impossible for any one he works with to speak on this

would you elaborate on this - very curious - and of course his behaviour is very predicable and controlling

Trans activists have gone after so many different female centred organisations. I don't see how it is possible to read this as anything other than an attack on women. Stonewall was quoted on another thread about this that they would show how women's refuges had been trans inclusive for years. I find that so sinister; Firstly, of course the very few people with dysphoria may have been using these services already. Before the "trans umbrella" they were not perceived as threatening. Secondly, yes they all do seem to include trans women in their policies. Almost as if they'd already been approached about this issue? And thirdly. Trans men. Why is it OK for TRAs to exclude them?

He has introduced a trans visibility policy at Credit Suisse, and had Stoenwall in training on it, he reverse mentors the board on it. So effectively he is an charge of all the rules about gender, he offers little chats to anyone with questions. So if you find him in the ladies, smile and suck it up, no one is going to support you if you look at him the wrong way.
He said this on Twitter;

Could not agree more, you look amazing Paris and be proud of who you are - don't worry about those sad enough to be filled with hate, they will sadly never amount to anything anyway - you go girl!!

twitter.com/PippaBunce/status/949597497147691008

So you have been warned, open your mouth and your career is over.

www.stonewall.org.uk/news/stonewall-reveals-britain’s-top-trans-inclusive-employers

www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/get-involved-ind-and-comm/trans-allies-programme

You'll notice that the Guiding policy is top down; being imposed from above despite extensive grassroots objections. It's because all these third sector orgs are being led by posh postmodernists. That's why nowhere in the corporate third sector world is safe from this shit - from Amnesty and Oxfam and Save The Children to the Guides - all taken over by social constructionist bullshit. It's all connected.

This!! They seem rotten to the core now and not to be trusted. Looks like we have to start again with feminist led charities, services and refuges….the existing third sector seems mostly all tainted (still waiting with baited breath to see what Womensaid's trans review throws up as the govt has said it will adopt same)

So you have been warned, open your mouth and your career is over.

This is the difference between those structurally disadvantaged and those who play at it - the former have no voice at present and certainly little influence. The latter are able to be poacher turned gamekeeper (or more aptly gatekeeper) and hence set the rules and the playing field for their dominance - it's like watching Patriarchy in Action in another guise by throwing Trans rights under their wheel

Miranda Yardley is very good on Bunce.

mirandayardley.com/en/cross-dressing-all-the-way-to-the-top-where-all-the-transvestites-have-gone/

This is absolutely being pushed from the top down

Because it's not about demand from transgender children. How many boys have gender issues and want to be in the guides? We are talking very small numbers.

I think the reasons this is happening are varied. When I'm feeling charitable, I think it's about controlling a female space. Anything for or about women and girls is a magnet for TIM for validation and control.

I do think organisations, particularly those caring for girls, need to take a closer look at the trans umbrella and decide if they are happy with the motivation of some who want to change policies and procedures.

Well at least the picture should reassure those people who were worried about lots of MPs being convinced by stonewall in parliament.
Not a lot of MPs there.

And the picture of a man wearing a pair of fake breasts.

It's because all these third sector orgs are being led by posh postmodernists. That's why nowhere in the corporate third sector world is safe from this shit - from Amnesty and Oxfam and Save The Children to the Guides - all taken over by social constructionist bullshit. It's all connected.

So much this. And they push their agendas, even when only tangentially related.

Who has their claws into them?

They just seem to be listening to big money lobby groups.

Not, you know, their actual leaders and parents.

Thx Picasso very enlightening

But this is all beside the point. Whatever the future may hold for Bunce, the reality is that:

Bunce is a heterosexual man who picks and chooses how he benefits from his position;
His inclusion on this list is at the expense of an actual woman;
His advocacy leverages oppressed minorities to his own benefit;
His advocacy is actively anti-woman and anti-homosexual; and
Women’s and LGB organisations continue to centre heterosexual males.
It does not have to be like this. Bunce talks a lot about authenticity. I wish he had the balls to say:

I am an autogynephilic man, a transvestite, and this is okay;
I am not ‘a woman’ and I, as a father of two children, am not female;
I care about sex equality, and in my advocacy other equalities will follow this;
I understand that gender is stereotypes and this damages all of us; and
I believe we should all be allowed to wear what we want to work, whatever makes us most comfortable makes us most happy and productive.

Well said Miranda

Looks like we have to start again with feminist led charities, services and refuges.

YY.

I've already altered all my regular charitable donations - I mostly give to local charities (where I see how the money is spent) or women's orgs that are holding out on single sex, woman-centred provision. I would suggest that we collate a list but it would probably only send abuse and harassment their way.

There's no way in creation I'm giving to corporate charities that are busy abusing women and minors abroad (Oxfam), putting pimps on their boards (Amnesty), or taking my donation and giving it to the likes of Mermaids (Children in Need et al).

They want girls to grow up thinking of it as normal to have no connection to the women around them.

I don't know if it's actually deliberate but I think this is true. The nurturing power of women only spaces is an existential threat. That's why the lashing out is so vicious.

It's massively about sanitising and normalising kink and fetish. Cross dressers, transvestites. If they can create a loophole making them legally women they are in everywhere.

That's what Shelia Jeffreys was presetting about in the House of Commons back in March which caused such utter rage among the narcs. They have been working towards this since the 1970s.

Someone like Stephen Whittle is just a cover.