Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Girl Guides Panel discussion at Speakers house.... woman, male, woman, male, male, male....

144 replies

therealposieparker · 15/05/2018 16:51

A woman who is blocked from view, Phillip Bunce who is sometimes dressed as female, Maria Miller MP, Trans woman Bex or Aimee (they look the same to me) and a bloke. They are discussing trans inclusion and the girl guides.

OP posts:
Original poster
therealposieparker · 15/05/2018 18:31

Ruth Hunt and Co were meeting with Penny today.

OP posts:
Wanderabout · 15/05/2018 18:37

Ruth Hunt and Co were meeting with Penny today.

Saw that. And so they should - trans voices should be heard. So should women's, so I am hopeful she will make sure all voices are heard and needs are balanced.

R0wantrees · 15/05/2018 18:38

TBH if questions such as those asked by James Kirkup in The Spectator article blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/ are ever answered, I'm relieved that they can be also be asked of Conservatives.

As things stand, if these were to be asked, there is the potential for what might be significant political gain, especially by those who are further right within the party.

Original poster
therealposieparker · 15/05/2018 18:39

She hasn't arranged any meetings with women I know have requested them,

OP posts:
Baroquehavoc · 15/05/2018 19:17

From the scouting website:
"Can boys and girls share accommodation?

Yes they can. This is subject to the Risk Assessment of the Nights Away Permit holder. The Nights Away Permit holder has the ultimate responsibility for the event so it will be their decision. However, this decision must take into consideration the views of the young people and the views of the parents, and give the parents the opportunity to voice any concerns they may have. "

That's not the same wording as the proposal for the guides. Parents and girls aren't allowed to be aware of mix sexed sleeping arrangements.

Pratchet · 15/05/2018 19:30

MPs are totally losing interest. They were all talking to themselves. Maria Miller had to explain why the men aren't erasing women's rights fast enough. Lol.

Pratchet · 15/05/2018 19:31

If any Tory MPs still listen to Maria Miller on this I would eat my hat. And where are the Labour and Green allies?

Picassospaintbrush · 15/05/2018 19:32

Having Bunce there in his wig could well be an own goal.

AnneElliott · 15/05/2018 19:38

Although the scout guidance does not outlaw mixed sleeping accommodation, I have never come across a leader who allows it.

We have big tents with 4 zipped pods. Girls in one side and boys on the other. If we had a transgender scout I think we'd put them in a pod on their own - we also do that for kids who can't share for other reasons (bedwetting normally).

RaininSummer · 15/05/2018 19:46

Regardless of what scouts do and dont do, I think it's important that Guides remains for girls alone. You would think with the need for inclusiveness that those in charge would give some thought to the needs of communities such as Muslims even if they don't give a fig for girls in general.

CharlieParley · 15/05/2018 19:53

The Scouts guidance on transgender children struck me as eminently more sensible than the GG one. Their main aim seems to be to make sure that ALL children are comfortable and supported.

helpfulperson · 15/05/2018 20:14

We do do mixed sleeping both YP and adults and for us it has always worked well. I wasn't really trying to compare the two approaches. Just make sure that the poster who said due to the GG rules she was going to send her daughter to scouts understood that it wasn't banned there.

gendercritter · 15/05/2018 20:35

What a farce. You couldn't make it up

Baroquehavoc · 15/05/2018 20:43

helpfulperson, but you do follow guidelines and take into account the feelings and needs of the children and their parents?

Wanderabout · 15/05/2018 21:41

This is the critical piece missing from the guides policy: However, this decision must take into consideration the views of the young people and the views of the parents, and give the parents the opportunity to voice any concerns they may have."

OlennasWimple · 15/05/2018 21:47

I slept in mixed accommodation doing DofE as a teen - three people in a three person tent is pretty cosy... Our teacher made sure that both the other and me were happy with the arrangement, and did the same with the boy who was sharing with us. I suspect she thought carefully about which boy was put in to share with us too

All a far cry from "this is a girl and there will be no discussion about it, and if you complain you will be invited to leave"

OddBoots · 15/05/2018 22:01

Exactly, if the parents are able to voice concerns then at the very least they are also able to withdraw their child and likewise the child/ren can have the freedom to make an informed decision and decide to attend or not.

It is the secrecy under which GG want to operate that is the big red flag, they seem to think that the rights of children not identifying as trans are of too little importance to have any kind of balance (and that there is automatically so much shame in being trans that it needs to be hidden).

changeypants · 15/05/2018 22:08

Don't forget the girls questioning their gender identity who will be supported to leave the guides.... Nice.

LaSqrrl · 15/05/2018 22:34

That's not the same wording as the proposal for the guides. Parents and girls aren't allowed to be aware of mix sexed sleeping arrangements.

Good spot. A very critical difference in approach.

R0wantrees · 15/05/2018 22:56

Nic Williams from Fairplay 4 Women
twitter.com/AskNic/status/996474522370035712

Girl Guides Panel discussion at Speakers house.... woman, male, woman, male, male, male....
ALittleBitOfButter · 15/05/2018 23:00

Wow. How appalling.

Wanderabout · 15/05/2018 23:14

It is the secrecy under which GG want to operate that is the big red flag

Exactly, secrecy and related lack of consent.

It also sets a precedent for overriding normal safeguarding rules, and it being a crime to question it.

Ereshkigal · 16/05/2018 00:09

WTF are they playing at? This goes further than just virtue signalling outsourcing idiocy. Who has their claws into them?

LaSqrrl · 16/05/2018 01:12

It also sets a precedent for overriding normal safeguarding rules, and it being a crime to question it.

Predators' delight