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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The right to bare arms.....for women only

135 replies

whatnow123 · 14/05/2018 17:49

As a man reading some of these threads, the fear women have of male violence is greater than I realised.

Is a 2nd amendment, for women, a solution?

Pro gun women in America say the gun is the great equaliser. They say it makes them safer. I think it's a good argument.

OP posts:
Racecardriver · 14/05/2018 19:22

But what about the trans women?!!!

Giving myself a Biscuit

AncientLights · 14/05/2018 19:23

I hated 'The Power'!

newtlover · 14/05/2018 19:28

but the 'feeling safer' is a dangerous illusion- not one that should be indulged

Copperbonnet · 14/05/2018 19:28

Can safety not also be a perception

Yes it can. But having guns IME makes people feel less safe.

They have a gun so their perception is based on the fact that everyone has a gun and everyone is likely to attack them.

I live in a really naice area, very low crime but people here panic if a stranger rings their door bell in a way they just don’t in the U.K.

I don’t have a gun but happily open my door and politely get rid of the cold caller.

My friend who does have a gun hides in her house behind the CCTV. (And her attitude is common)

Regardless of perception, American gun death stats prove categorically that having guns doesn’t make anyone safer.

InfiniteCurve · 14/05/2018 19:30

Someone,somewhere,on MN linked to a documentary made in the US.They selected a variety of people and trained them,then put them in a mock gun attack situation.They were all hopeless - despite the training once they were scared they couldn't aim,or think strategically,or keep themselves safe while dealing with the threat.(even the guy who was keen and did target shooting)
The police who took part said they had to constantly reinforce and practice the skills or they lost the muscle memory and reflexes that meant they could react in a threat situation.
So,no - I wouldn't feel safer with a gun.

TheBogWitchIsBack · 14/05/2018 19:33

Perceiving yourself to be safe is not the same as being safe.

jugglingsatsumas · 14/05/2018 19:34

It might make them feel safer but they are not safer with a gun - far from it. We shouldn't make policies based on what people "feel" but on facts.

I thought your title was referring to this story: www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/14/india-college-cut-womens-sleeves-before-exam-cheating

ErrolTheDragon · 14/05/2018 19:51

I thought this was going to be about vest tops and shaving ones pits. That might have produced a less one sided discussion.

More guns makes everyone less safe.

Maybe, as male violence is the problem, we should have some male curfew nights?

Opheliah · 14/05/2018 20:19

Americans always suggest the solution to violence is more violence...

Opheliah · 14/05/2018 20:20

Guns don't prevent violence they cause it.

SardineReturns · 14/05/2018 20:28

"As a man reading some of these threads, the fear women have of male violence is greater than I realised."

You've never noticed how women go around in gangs on nights out, go to the toilet together, get cabs home rather than night buses, tend to agree to go back to blokes houses only if their mate(s) go too etc etc etc?

You've also not watched telly and seen the constant tidal wave of depictions of women presented as prey in a vast array of glossy USA programs?

You've never seen police / transport notices telling women to do XYZ lest the bogyman gets them?

Maybe get out more or pay more attention when you are out?

R0wantrees · 14/05/2018 20:39

whatnow123
A dog may be better. Ours is as soft as they come but has a big bark so an effective deterrent. Good company too if you or your wife are ever on your own.

CardsforKittens · 14/05/2018 20:43

I'm holding out for castration at birth and compulsory hormone treatment for all males. I'll settle for nothing less.

Guns indeed.

SilverDoe · 14/05/2018 20:51

This can’t be a real suggestion right?? Confused

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 14/05/2018 20:57

"The solution to bare arms is a cardigan."

Grin
thebewilderness · 14/05/2018 21:19

No, self defense training and deadly force are not just a few steps away on the ladder of force.

Physical force training is excellent exercise and keeps us practicing the moves over and over till we are capable of a trained response even when the adrenaline hits our system. In fact with adrenaline we are even more effective.
Weapons training unfortunately does not work that way. The adrenaline charge makes us shake so much that hitting the broad side of a barn is dubious proposition. Paintball guns are a fairly good training aid for emergency response if a sidearm is part of your daily equipment.
Still, having a gun in the house or the purse does not make women any safer, if statistics are to be believed it makes us less so.

newtlover · 14/05/2018 21:46

actually 'feeling more safe' isperhaps not a good thing anyway, there's a reason we are afraid in certain situations, that's what makes us assess risk and act accordingly

LassWiADelicateAir · 14/05/2018 22:32

This is such a stupid idea.

powershowerforanhour · 14/05/2018 22:47

Hey girls we have nothing to fear but fear itself apparently! Those two women a week just need to not be scared and then they will be fine. Off with the cardies!

smithsinarazz · 14/05/2018 22:50

Yeah, stupid idea, i think all the reasons why have been covered.

Shall we talk about bare arms instead? I've got a nasty rash, but it's too hot to wear sleeves. Should I give a toss about revolting people with my manky skin?

DN4GeekinDerby · 14/05/2018 23:30

Perceived safety is important and is an issue to deal with, but it is not the same thing as actual physical safety. Both must be dealt with.

To use the trans references already in this thread, telling trans people that they have a life expectancy in their 30s and that they have high risk of being attacked and killed, well - not shockingly, there is significant evidence that it causes higher rates of depression, anxiety, and a lot of other issues and some evidence that it's connected with the disturbingly high suicide rates. All of those perceived risks are not true in the UK, that does not stop their view of safety to be truly negatively affecting people's well-being. An open conversation about the actual physical safety issues while not dismissing the effects of the perceptions and their impact is important.

It also goes the other way. I read writings a while ago by women who trained in martial arts who were sexually assaulted or raped. There was a lot of discussion in their writing on how much they shamed and blamed themselves for not being able to fight them off because they feel they should have been able to do so. Many wrote about how this perception impacted their depression and identity. They had the skills everyone says should keep them safe, they were meant to be safe, but...and the same will likely be true with guns. Being honest about the limits of any protective preventative method is important as well because, in the end, while our perceptions of safety do impact how we interact with the world, our feelings won't protect us in the end and likely neither will guns for most people. It takes a lot of practice and training to use any of these under emergency conditions and even then it is not a guarantee. We need in place far better for safety than a gun can give us.

And, being tongue in cheek here, if you want to use Americans culture to justify the idea of only women having guns, you better take into account the multiple American communities that have a 'we take care of our own business' attitude. Does it not concern you at all whatnow123 that there are so many country songs celebrating women murdering men, sometimes simply for the men being accused of cheating? Gotta say, my American childhood certainly had quite a few violent women who, even the ones who hate that type of music, found those songs inspirational and no qualms discussing what they'd do to a man who crossed the line...and I know at least one of them tried.

whatnow123 do you really think women so infantile that we'd only ever use weapons to react rather than act out ourselves? I've seen no evidence to back that up. And if we're going by physical weakness and likelihood to be attacked, what about disabled people of both sexes? How about for dealing with elder abuse? What about children - one of the highest risk groups for abuse...how does your plan cope when the mother is violent, when it's the mother hurting the child or trying to get the child to hurt/kill themself or others? I've seen all of that and I would really rather not see that with guns involved.

Weapons don't reduce violence, they don't level the playing field, it does not equalize, they just give an advantage to those who have the ability and will to use them. That's not everyone and it certainly won't just be women who use them for self defense even if only women could legally get guns. Men would still get access either through trusting relationships with women or by force and some women are murderous assholes. While I get the appeal of guns to some, I don't think it's the solution to this due to the limits and risks of guns - if it did solve this or any other issue, the US would be a very different place. Really, I think any preventative weapon/fight-based measure will have more flaws that will backfire than benefits. It will work for some, but it won't for many more.

I'm all for bare arms though. My spotty arms are usually hidden in a fleece or denim shirts instead. I seem to keep sprouting new moles and more spots on my arms and shoulders now than I ever did as a teenager.

SpareRibFem · 15/05/2018 00:17

So adjusting from this not being a dress code thread...

No no no just no

spontaneousgiventime · 15/05/2018 00:22

Bare arms? Aint that for August time? As for guns - no, no, no, no, no.

Lweji · 15/05/2018 01:13

actually 'feeling more safe' isperhaps not a good thing anyway, there's a reason we are afraid in certain situations, that's what makes us assess risk and act accordingly

Exactly.

I've done self-defense training, but the most important lesson was that the safest way was to avoid danger.
Even though I wasn't bad against much stronger men, my main strategy was to avoid direct physical contact. One real blow and I'd be done.
Danger awareness is more important than weapons or feeling safe.

Pythagonal · 15/05/2018 01:25

I know my wife would, after being burgled she feels a lot more vulnerable at night when alone. Would a gun make her safer? Not sure. Would she feel safer. Definitely.

I'd rather have a protective, barky dog than a gun in my house. Especially one who looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. It's seriously scarey when they turn into Cujo. (Glances fondly sideways at upside down sleeping spaniel).