Biggest mass shooting in Australia since Port Arthur (distressing)

[Chachachac]

Australians will already be aware of the murder-suicide shooting in Margaret River in WA -

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/11/margaret-river-shooting-mother-and-her-four-children-among-victims

Two women (mother and daughter) and four children (the children/grandchildren) all shot by their husband/father/grandfather, who then turned the gun on himself.

While obviously not wishing to make anything more difficult for the extended family and friends (if such a thing were even possible - God knows what hell the children’s father is going through right now), the question is still what the fuck are we going to do about the scourge of male violence against women and children that plagues our societies?

The papers are full of questions as to why on earth this man could have killed his whole family, what was he going through that we don’t know about?

Personally I think these are the wrong questions.

In a tragedy like this we are often hesitant to lay blame or even to talk much about what has happened, seeing it as being in poor taste.

I reject that and I think that until we as a society address what’s going on and do something to stop male violence, we are going to see this happen over and over and over again.

But where on earth to begin?

I just feel so angry tbh.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/11/margaret-river-shooting-mother-and-her-four-children-among-victims

Clicky link. Warning: very distressing subject

I don't know but agree.

I agree OP.

Socialisation of boys often involves brutalising them and forcing them to reject engaging with their emotions.
Obviously a murderer cannot be absolved of responsibility on this basis but we have to be honest about the fact that the vast majority of murders and sex crimes are committed by men and try to find a way to stop it

Interesting that when local police and politicians were quoted, there were six different references to the words "tragic" or "tragedy". And one reference to tragedy by the author of the piece.

And only one reference to murder in the whole article (by the author)but even then it was qualified as murder-suicide. There have been threads on here before about the tragedy narrative when someone slaughters their family. Clodagh, Liam, Niall and Ryan Hawe for example.

The Guardian article doesn't make it clear that Peter Miles is the person responsible but this article does.

link

FAILED MALES

Failed males from Raoul Moat to this fucking waste of space.

But why kill everyone? Why? Why would he murder your wife and children instead of fucking off if he is unhappy?

Or is it that men like this can't bear the thought of the wife and family having a good life if their life is unhappy?

Why not LEAVE like other men do when they are unhappy and trapped. It's not as if it isn't acceptable to leave your family, it's normal.

Perhaps they feel inferior to their wives ? This woman was very active in the community, maybe he was jealous? Maybe he compared himself and found he was lacking?

That's why I use the word, failed, because rather than trying to do something about what is lacking, they would rather destroy everything.

Honestly, these stories, which are common place, make me hate men.

I know that women, mothers, society will all be blamed for what happened to this 'poor' man. Why didn't he get help, who failed to help him? Blah Blah Blah.

I suggest he didn't want help. He'd rather destroy.

It's just a rant. I know we are socialised differently and Australia is a very macho culture but FFS get a grip, men. Get a fucking grip.

The daughter had left her abusive husband who was stalking her according to the accounts I have seen. So I'm unsure he's not part of the problem.

Then her father goes and shoots her and her kids plus his wife by the looks of it (though unsure if that's been confirmed yet that her father was the killer ) - whatever - fucking men.

Margaret River shooting: father says he still loves man believed responsible for deaths

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/13/margaret-river-tragedy-father-says-he-still-loves-man-believed-responsible-for-deaths?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

It will only stop when men stop seeing women and children as property. Which the ex clearly does.

“I still love who Peter was. If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t have Katrina, I wouldn’t have her kids,” Aaron Cockman told reporters, speaking publicly for the first time since the tragedy. “So it’s not some random guy off the street who’s taken them away from me – he gave them to me and now he’s taken them away.

“If it had to happen, there is no better person than that.”

The guy must be in shock but this is a really weird thing to say, as if he's talking about a random disaster, a natural disaster, not about a decision a person took that they very easily could not have taken.

If it had to happen?

I don't think the press globally should front up to people so quickly after this type of thing TBH I mean it's out of order. Also interviewing the neighbours always >> "oh he was a great guy what a tragedy" (don't know if this has happened yet with this one).

If it had to happen, there is no better person than that.”

What the actual fuck??? I still there some kind of weird religious shit going on here?

I still= is

he gave them to me and now he’s taken them away.

“If it had to happen, there is no better person than that.”

We see you

Clementine Ford will be onto him and the Guardian….thank goodness

I will as well but her reach is greater :)

I had a family that did songwriting similar. This isn't about male violence, it is about mental health. No different to women who drown their children in the bath before killing themselves. Tragic but quite separate to t the issue of male violence.

It's like he's talking about a god isn't it

Maybe this "head of family" had some cult shit going on or something as PP says

It is a very very odd thing to say

Anyway here we are speculating again

As PP said

"fucking men"

Male violence inc sexual violence is a scourge on humankind.

OK, the reports are still unfolding, but...

The father of the children had this to say (and my emphasis, because reasons). This is a compilation from two sources, seemingly part of consecutive quote:

"I still love who Peter was," Mr Cockman told reporters in Margaret River on Sunday, marking the first time he had spoken publicly about the tragedy.

"If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have Katrina, I wouldn't have her kids.

"It's not some random guy off the street who's taken them away from me - he gave them to me and now he's taken them away.

"If it had to happen, there is no better person than that.

"Peter didn't snap. He's thought this through. I think he's been thinking this through for a long time. All the kids died peacefully in their beds.

---

In the emotional address, Mr Cockman said he believed his former father-in-law had been "thinking this through for a long time''.

"All these kids died peacefully in their beds. The [police officer] that went through, he said they looked all peaceful. How the hell Peter did that I still can't figure out, but if someone did it ... he did a good job, he did a really good job.

''If someone was going to do it, I trust he did it right and he did it right."

"The kids went to sleep and now they are nothing."

These are not the words of a "grieving father" as the knee-jerk media portrays. Not even someone in complete denial. There is something more to this, idolising the FIL, basically congratulating him on 'a job well done'. It reads as if it was his own wish (to annihilate his family). There are other quotes there, effectively trying to cast some blame on the MIL (then ironically absolving her), and of course the media harping on about "embroiled in a bitter custody dispute with [the ex-wife, victim]™"

I have been following DV femicides/filicides for a very long time. In all those years, I have never heard statements like these from survivors - the ONLY time I have heard statements similar to this, is from the perpetrator (not saying he is the perp, but only ever a surviving perp says stuff like this). It does cross my mind as to whether there was an 'agreement' or 'arrangement' in place between this dude (children's father) and his former FIL. Which is speculation on my part, but experienced speculation nonetheless.

And seeing him briefly on TV news, he didn't look too cut up about it either. He would have been more emotional discussing the weather.

It reads as if it was his own wish (to annihilate his family)

Totally agree. That reads as if he had thought about it himself and is in awe of the man who actually did it “so well”.

I wonder if this was a joint act. Was the father involved in the planning?

Oh I see you already suspect that. I didn’t read to the end of your post!

This isn't about male violence, it is about mental health.

I disagree - all the research shows that mass killers are often not depressed nor stressed. But they are angry and very vindictive. And they start at home by being abusive with their partners and families. It can often be a FU to the wife when the kids are killed by their father who then takes his own life. It's the ultimate act of revenge - maybe the father was telling the abusive SIL FU - who knows - but this is male violence - that's for sure.

I wonder if this was a joint act. Was the father involved in the planning

It's analogous to Jonestown - when the game is up and someone was about to out their abusiveness - they kill all their followers.

It does make me wonder if the father is involved but as I said earlier, it could also be a FU to the father.

IDK - I can't get in their disordered thinking - however they definitely treat the family like the Egyptian pharaohs or Chinese emperors when they have their slaves killed and buried with them

Mental health is often used as an excuse.
This is just another crime fuelled by male entitlement.

These cases of men murdering their wives/families are usually "crimes of passion" committed in an act of (often drunken) rage. But that doesn't mean they haven't spent months or years building up layers of resentment and anger, which eventually reaches a flash point. I suspect they either kill the children then themselves as the ultimate act of revenge against their wife, or kill wife and children then themselves to make sure no other man can step in and take over their role as the father. There's a strong does of mental illness involved too.
I think some men become misogynists not from some basic literal hatred of all women but because their sense of their own manliness and male identity has been threatened, usually through something like a domineering bullying father (who probably suffered from the same anxiety) or some other peer group event that left them feeling deeply shamed and humiliated. They therefore seek female affirmation/submissiveness to bolster their male ego, and when that doesn't work (because it just creates tension and resentment within the relationship) they enter a vicious circle where their increasingly insecure male ego demands more and more affirmation and subservience but increasingly doesn't get it. Mix in a few personality traits from the classic Dark Triad of psychological disorders and it can all end in horrific violence.
I've known several men who, on a lesser scale, have behaved in this way. Ultimately what they want from a woman is affirmation, love and intimacy, but their macho insecurity creates an excessive neediness which pushes their partner away, which further threatens their male ego, and so it goes, on and on...

FYI I'm male, this is how I see it.

I’m obvs a man and felt suicidal, one of the things that stops you is the odd family member who might miss you. Your mind does get a bit knotted up and twisted so your not exactly thinking clearly. Note I’ve not ever contemplated taking anyone with me but suicide is ultimately a very selfish act, so if that’s where your head is at already may be it’s a twisted leap in wrong direction.

If it were me I’d just make it look like a stupid but quick accident, people might mourn, but you’re not dumping a whole tonne of “what if?” And “what could I have done?” Questions. Plus there is the added benefit of nobody knowing quite how much anguish you are in.

Just my perspective but I think it might be fruitful to look at this as a subset of male suicides. I don’t mean to frilly it up it is still ultimately murder, but I dunno what else to suggest!

the odd family member who might miss you

That's the main reason "normal" people don't suicide when in so much overwhelming pain. Because as you say it leaves others with the what-ifs. And yes people can be so down they don't see a way out.

But this subset, from what I've read, really are very bitter and vindictive - they kill others for a reason - and that reason is normally a malicious one.

It's very distressing but if you read the books in detail about these guys - the ones who kill their kids and partners - they are in payback and dominance mode - the common theme in male violence. Some men scapegoat / kill the step-children that they didn't father. Some beat the woman up. But these who kill their own children and their partner/family - that is like a cult leader who's about to get busted so kills himself and all members as a FU to the authorities. They are his sheep to do with as he sees fit.

There's something very untoward that gets obfuscated as "crime of passion"/he must have been under pressure etc when all the evidence doesn't point to that - but we don't like to think that there are guys around that will vindictively kill their families, as others will kill strangers. That other humans are viewed as objects at their whim - that's the heart of male violence. Most can't hold that they were taken in by someone who could do such an evil act.

I'm curious - why do you call yourself an MRA?