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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Biggest mass shooting in Australia since Port Arthur (distressing)

126 replies

Chachachac · 12/05/2018 16:56

Australians will already be aware of the murder-suicide shooting in Margaret River in WA -

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/11/margaret-river-shooting-mother-and-her-four-children-among-victims

Two women (mother and daughter) and four children (the children/grandchildren) all shot by their husband/father/grandfather, who then turned the gun on himself.

While obviously not wishing to make anything more difficult for the extended family and friends (if such a thing were even possible - God knows what hell the children’s father is going through right now), the question is still what the fuck are we going to do about the scourge of male violence against women and children that plagues our societies?

The papers are full of questions as to why on earth this man could have killed his whole family, what was he going through that we don’t know about?

Personally I think these are the wrong questions.

In a tragedy like this we are often hesitant to lay blame or even to talk much about what has happened, seeing it as being in poor taste.

I reject that and I think that until we as a society address what’s going on and do something to stop male violence, we are going to see this happen over and over and over again.

But where on earth to begin?

I just feel so angry tbh.

OP posts:
YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/05/2018 16:03

Personally, I think it would help if the media says it like it is '[another] man murders his family in cold blood', followed by 'what can we do about male violence against women and children?'. Name it and shame it.

cistersofterfy · 13/05/2018 16:15

How on earth can anyone think that the kids died peacefully?

TokenBritPoshOfCourse · 13/05/2018 16:24

I think there’s more to come out of this. That statement from the father is just beyond odd.

StickyStuffRemover · 13/05/2018 16:27

The father's response reminds me of the footage of Mick Philpott at the press conference after he'd just killed his kids. He behaved inappropriately, praising the authorities & thanking everyone & I knew when I saw it that something wasn't right. This stirs up similar unease in me.

I suspect what someone said upthread about the father having fantasised about it & being in awe of his FIL for actually doing it may be very near the mark.

TransExclusionaryMRA · 13/05/2018 17:49

Well I do call myself a MRA because I do think in some avenues men are disadvantaged, particularly with regards to deaths in the workplace, child custody, the gender tax gap, male suicide rates and the general objectification of men as resource dispensers coupled with the general disposability we are expected to go along with.

I’m not 110% wedded to each and every mra position as I accept there is room for error in my perspectives. I do for example think rape is a bigger problem than false accusations of rape and we need to have a conversation about how to ensure rapists are brought to justice. My position on child custody is that of more men DID childcare before relationship breakdowns they would get more favorable judgements in their favour in the courts (as that is what happened to me!). I make that argument to my fellow MRAs.

I guess I would prefer to call myself an MRRA which to me would be a men’s rights and responsibilities advocate as I don’t believe you can talk about what society should provide you with without also discussing what you can bring to society. I appreciate people wouldn’t agree but that’s my position currently.

LaSqrrl · 13/05/2018 23:50

Personally, I think it would help if the media says it like it is '[another] man murders his family in cold blood', followed by 'what can we do about male violence against women and children?'. Name it and shame it.

YES! Instead the media spend endless hours 'looking for the reason that set him off'. They generally don't with female perps, and go straight to 'evil woman'.

they definitely treat the family like the Egyptian pharaohs or Chinese emperors when they have their slaves killed and buried with them

I had not thought about it this way, but yes I agree.

These cases of men murdering their wives/families are usually "crimes of passion" committed in an act of (often drunken) rage

Not really, but especially not for family annihilators. You would have to go through coroner's reports to see the percentage of murderers on drink/drugs, but I would be fairly confident in saying an minority, even if only a significant minority. Besides, that does not get accepted by the court, they will find them guilty anyway. You go onto the 'careful planning'. Do you realise those two positions are at odds? If one was a careful planner, they would not stuff up the entire plan by getting blotto to do it.

The father's response reminds me of the footage of Mick Philpott

Me too. And also a number of other wife-killers that played the 'grieving spouse' for the cameras, only to be later convicted. Gerard Baden-Clay is one from AU a few years ago. Fake tears and everything. But you watch them and just know they are faking it.

I have seen Cockman on TV interviews without sound. Reporters could be asking him about the weather for the level of engagement. Put that together with the words he was saying, and I shall just leave that there unfinished.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 14/05/2018 00:00

Horrible.
Agree with comments on the father.
After a discussion with a psychiatrist about similar situations I'm moving away from mental health considerations. (I think these acts are so horrifying we want the people to be unwell as it's less awful than a well person doing such a terrible thing.)

LaSqrrl · 14/05/2018 00:00

Allison Baden-Clay's parents have finally started to address the media - that they knew GBC was controlling and abusive.

And I think that is the problem in many cases, either the victim or their families completely underestimate the level of dangerousness in the perp, particularly in more middle-class situations. I gather they think they would 'know a killer if they saw one' (thank you Hollywood casting). But killers, like rapists, usually blend in seamlessly with the rest of the male population. You cannot pick them by sight.

You can however, do a risk assessment and look at the level of controlling behaviours, and past actions/threats, combined with current or changing circumstances.

ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo · 14/05/2018 00:06

either the victim or their families completely underestimate the level of dangerousness in the perp

I agree with this. I have been through an experience that before it happened I would have believed was the kind of thing that only happened on TV and that X, although a nasty git, would never be so crazy as to do what they did. we do under estimate the levels people will go to.

ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo · 14/05/2018 00:07

That’s why red flags are so important and should not just be noted but more importantly, acted upon.

RedDwarves · 14/05/2018 00:12

I’m in Australia and was discussing the father’s comments/behaviours with my police officer friend yesterday. She said that the comments were utterly bizarre and are laden with red flags.

Second to that, the “only worst mass shooting since” headlines are fucking me right off. This was an instance of domestic violence. It was a completely different situation from Port Arthur and gun control is utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

LaSqrrl · 14/05/2018 00:24

Second to that, the “only worst mass shooting since” headlines are fucking me right off. This was an instance of domestic violence. It was a completely different situation from Port Arthur and gun control is utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

What gets to me about the "worst shooting since" headlines, is that it will further incite a future perp to 'beat that number' and become infamous. Rather like the cycle of media frenzy in the US and school shootings. Each one feeds the other, and the pile of dead bodies rises.

Gun control is 'reasonable' in Australia. Most of the private citizens who have guns are farmers (and yes, used in DV too). There is legitimate reason for farmers to have guns (like humanely putting down sick animals). The problem does happen when that farmer is a domestic abuser, and of course it becomes the weapon of choice.

There are categories of fire arm licences in AU. The most common and 'easiest' to obtain is the 'long arm licence' which are shotguns and rifles. It is extremely difficult to obtain a handgun licence, and is generally restricted to police, security guards etc.

Australia does have a reasonable balance on gun control. No, you will never stop an abuser using one. But even if they do not have one, they will use other means - like the man who rigged up gas canisters in the ceiling of the house and gassed the entire family one night.

LaSqrrl · 14/05/2018 00:27

She said that the comments were utterly bizarre and are laden with red flags.

I concur with that. As I mentioned, I have been tracking DV femicides for many years, and so utterly bizarre. With more red flags than a military parade in China.

AltheaorDonna · 14/05/2018 01:37

I'm in Oz, about a two hour drive away from this. Friends of mine were in Margaret River at the weekend. Everyone I've spoken to about it is in utter shock, especially about the father's very odd comments. I also said to my husband last night that it reminded me of Mike Philpotts weird statements, and I wonder if this case is as straightforward as it at first appeared. A lot of issues have been raised, the grandfather was suffering from depression, apparently they were having money problems, and apparently the husband was stalking them (he admitted himself he drove around town to see if he could spot them). The children were all home schooled and apparently some or all of them are autistic, which may have caused additional stress I suppose. By all accounts though they were a very nice community minded family. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, whatever way it is the story is its horrific.

Koalablue · 14/05/2018 01:49

The behavior of the dad in the lead up to the shootings is bazaar. There is an interesting discussion on websleuths about this.

ToeToToe · 14/05/2018 02:30

Oh my fucking god. That is horrific. Women and children victims as usual.

LaSqrrl · 14/05/2018 02:45

Found the websleuths link, from page 11.

LaSqrrl · 14/05/2018 03:00

I wonder if the video from 2013 is still around? Cockman interviewed just after his best friend got killed by a shark. I doubt he congratulated the shark on 'job well done'.

I cannot read the full article from The Australian at the moment, so copy/pasting from a comment at websleuths, which goes on about the stalking by AC (and fairly recently too)

"The massacre came after weeks of tension between Ms Miles and her ex-husband Aaron Cockman. On the morning of April 23, Ms Miles told friends on Facebook that Mr Cockman had parked overnight outside her property and remained there after being asked to leave. “Despite four years passing … him agreeing to our kids being homeschooled … my Ex does not stop stalking and harassing me,” she wrote.

“I’ve been told to not cause conflict in front of my kids but my family shouldn’t have to spend their Sunday night dealing with this. He stayed overnight, parked on the side of the road, opposite our top corner boundary; spoke to my kids via phone about 5pm to inform us, he was asked to leave but was still there at 7am. I am not an isolated young wife anymore. If anyone sees his van parked on Osmington Rd please call the ranger to move him on.”

In her Facebook message, Ms Miles posted a string of text messages she received from Mr Cockman the previous evening. Among them, he said: “Can I talk to the kids”; “Or are you to (sic) messed up”; “I will be here every night”.

TinyRick · 14/05/2018 03:01

I'm friends with someone who knew the family.

They said that the Ex (father of the kids) was an abusive piece of shit who beat up his (then) wife.

2 of the children were austistic.

TinyRick · 14/05/2018 03:02

*autistic

Kursk · 14/05/2018 03:07

Australia is hold up as a shining example for gun control, that image is now almost as shattered as Britain’s.

LaSqrrl · 14/05/2018 03:15
. Cockman appears from 1:45. He does seems more upset about his best friend.
LaSqrrl · 14/05/2018 03:18

Australia is hold up as a shining example for gun control, that image is now almost as shattered as Britain’s.

The rise of more gang crime in the past few years.
The cops are still very tight policing gun shops and the like. Recently a gun shop not that far away had all its stock taken in for examination.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 14/05/2018 05:06

This is not an issue about gun control. Farmers still have access to long guns for legitimate reasons, such as the control of feral animals or euthanising of injured stock. Nor is this a random, mass shooting, such as occurred at Port Arthur; this was deliberate murder of women and children by a close family member. An average of one woman a week in Australia dies in the same fashion.

I also take umbrage at the idea that, "These cases of men murdering their wives/families are usually "crimes of passion" committed in an act of (often drunken) rage."

They are not crimes of passion. For the most part they are very deliberate and well-planned. In many instances their intentions have been signalled well in advance (Robert Farquarson, who drove his three sons into a dam and drowned them, had told a friend of his about his intention months before).

This is toxic masculinity at its most dangerous. This is men who believe that women and children are possessions; not fellow humans with a right to live as individuals. This is men who are consumed with frustration and rage that their belongings have revolted against them and slipped control. This is men asserting their corrupt sense of authority.

And before anyone starts bleating about, NAMALT, the reality is that not all men need to be. The killers and the rapists are like the shock troops of colonisation; the first wave of violence which serves to terrify and subdue. But in this example the terra nullius to be subdued is women's bodies and their reproductive capacities. The idea of a woman's body as an unknown continent, the conflation of colonisation and control of women is an old, old theme, "Oh my America, my new found land". It's why rape is an instrument of war; it demonstrates that the invaders have taken control of those reproductive rights, which (the invaded believe), belongs to them.

In the face of these visible examples of what happens to women who don't toe the line, women are taught to placate men; to keep them happy; to defer to them.

Susan Brownmiller wrote, "“[Rape is] nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear.”

This is often misquoted as "all men are rapists", but the point is that all men benefit from the outrages of the not-so-few. Women stay in abusive relationships from fear; women stay quiet; women excuse men; women subdue their sexuality and their personalities, all out of fear. Even something as simple as turning down a man in a bar is more easily achieved by saying, "I'm married", or, "I have a boyfriend", because a woman saying "NO", is not enough, they have to demonstrate that they are male property.

If it was true that NAMALT then we'd have outraged articles by men, pointing out that this was male violence, not journalists writing as if this was some sick entry in the mass murder Olympics. We'd have men working to solve the problems, not MRAs coming into this thread mansplaining male violence as "crimes of passion".

In 2013 an 18 year old man was killed in an attack on New Year's Eve. The following year the state government enacted a suite of laws called the "one-punch" laws, which included new sentencing for these attacks and new laws regulating the sale of alcohol and closing times for venues selling alcohol.

For decades one woman a week has been killed by her intimate partner or family member, and despite a Royal Commission into domestic violence, we are no closer to making the lives of women and children safer. And safer not from random "bad men", but from the men they should be most able to trust.

I hadn't realised how angry I was - but I won't apologise for the polemic. If you're a man reading this, I don't want to hear about how you respect women, and you would never do this and no man you know would do this. I want to hear how you're going to fix masculinity.

Skittlesandbeer · 14/05/2018 05:18

I think there is more to this story. Quite particular circumstances that make it harder to lump this event in with other murder/suicides.

Articles I’ve read today suggest that there was a child (adolescent?) who died of a congenital kidney problem. The death was overwhelmingly traumatic for the family. Another child was recently being tested for the same/similar condition. The suggestion is that the possibility of going through that again was just too much for the family.

Not saying that the grandfather wasn’t horrifically mentally ill to consider this action a solution. But it doesn’t sound like a typical family violence scenario, and certainly not a ‘mass shooting’ of the kinds it is being so quickly conflated with.

Perhaps, as details emerge, it will be discovered to be a terribly misguided attempt at euthanasia. Whatever happens, it really is so very sad an outcome. The town may never get over this.

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