Biggest mass shooting in Australia since Port Arthur (distressing)

[Chachachac]

Australians will already be aware of the murder-suicide shooting in Margaret River in WA -

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/11/margaret-river-shooting-mother-and-her-four-children-among-victims

Two women (mother and daughter) and four children (the children/grandchildren) all shot by their husband/father/grandfather, who then turned the gun on himself.

While obviously not wishing to make anything more difficult for the extended family and friends (if such a thing were even possible - God knows what hell the children’s father is going through right now), the question is still what the fuck are we going to do about the scourge of male violence against women and children that plagues our societies?

The papers are full of questions as to why on earth this man could have killed his whole family, what was he going through that we don’t know about?

Personally I think these are the wrong questions.

In a tragedy like this we are often hesitant to lay blame or even to talk much about what has happened, seeing it as being in poor taste.

I reject that and I think that until we as a society address what’s going on and do something to stop male violence, we are going to see this happen over and over and over again.

But where on earth to begin?

I just feel so angry tbh.

It's not a get-out-blame-free card you know. If you think you are being compassionate, you are wrong, you throw people with MHI under the bus.

Exactly. I hate it when people suggest mental illness as an excuse for abhorrent crimes.

Why is it mainly men who demonstrate this particular form of MI or whose MI manifests in the desire to kill women and children? Yes, there are a few cases of women killing their children and/or spouse (in the latter case it is usually self-defence) but the majority of perpetrators are men and the crimes tend to follow normal male pattern violence.

Why is it mainly men who demonstrate this particular form of MI or whose MI manifests in the desire to kill women and children? Yes, there are a few cases of women killing their children and/or spouse (in the latter case it is usually self-defence) but the majority of perpetrators are men and the crimes tend to follow normal male pattern violence.

Yes and if women do this then they immediately are branded as monsters not excused because of their assumed mental illness and the 'pressure' of working, providing for and looking after children. There is no excuse. People deal with horrible money, health and family problems every day. People live with mental illness every day without murdering children. There just is no excuse.

He's a really great family guy who had a terribly misguided attempt at euthanasia.
OR
He's a really great family guy who had that mental illness that turned him into a killer. So sad.

It's staggering to read the excuses people will make for men who murder.

It's staggering to read the excuses people will make for men who murder

How true. No doubt we will start to hear what a fine chap he was, and ponderings on what 'drove him' to this.

Who's saying he's a great guy?

It's staggering to read the excuses people will make for men who murder

Who is making excuses for the murderer?

Possible explanations are not excuses

Trying to assert explanations that excuse the murderer of culpability are excuses. Of course they are.

caperberries, the children’s father did.

The son in law said he's a great guy. If he's family had to be wiped out, then they had the best guy for it.

Trying to assert explanations that excuse the murderer of culpability are excuses. Of course they are.

Why on earth does exploring explanations = excusing the murderer of culpability?

I think the ex-SIL's behaviour (the stalking etc) probably contributed to the grandfather's (murderous) motivations in some way. But I don't see this as 'excusing' the murderer in the slightest.

Equally, the 'motivation' for the ex-SIL's stalking (being unable to see him children) does not excuse his behaviour. It absolutely doesn't.

Why on earth does exploring explanations = excusing the murderer of culpability?

When you post oh mental illness is terrible - this is not "exploring explanations" it is saying - this man was mentally ill and could not control his actions.

When you post "perhaps he did it as a mercy killing", he loved them so much he couldn't go through it again, blah, blah, blah. Then you are making excuses. Again.

think the ex must have put the family under enormous pressure with the stalking etc and that this, combined with other issues, pushed the grandfather over the edge. That he saw annihilating his family as the only way to end the suffering and the stress.
Why not just kill the ex then?

Poor grandad pushed over the edge by nasty lady - much better explanation.

Thanks for calling all that Helmet. Sick of these excuses - always used for men (when most do not have MHI) - and never used for women (who are more likely to have MHI or act in self defence).

More of those reversals of patriarchy, and most people, even women still swallow it.

Why not just kill the ex then?
That would be logical, wouldn't it Powershower? It shows how screwy some of these excuses really are.

Just wanted to back track to what Dance mentioned at the start of her fantastic comment:
Farmers still have access to long guns for legitimate reasons, such as the control of feral animals or euthanising of injured stock

Actually, farmers are more or less encouraged to get rid of feral animals like foxes and rabbits, because of the damage they do to native habitats and species (and foxes/rabbits are in plague numbers in some areas). Shooting is the best method to get the 'target animal', rather than risking other animals baited or trapped. Baiting and trapping are slow painful deaths. There is currently a $10 bounty on fox scalps.

If you're a man reading this, I don't want to hear about how you respect women, and you would never do this and no man you know would do this. I want to hear how you're going to fix masculinity.

Great post DancelikeEmmaGoldman

I was asked by a man what to do about DV after presenting to 50 of them the other day about the horrific cost to society - my response - give the boys who have been in DFV some mentoring so they understand what healthy male behaviour and responses look like as opposed to that mirrored by their father. Then I see Tim Winton saying the same thing in effect.

Expecting boys raised by abusive men to turn out differently is the definition of madness. But of course that means men as a whole accepting they have a problem within their ranks. And most won't accept that because they get no reward for it or it adversely affects their status or they are just pack animals (as one guy explained) and will only follow their leader - and we have such skewed immoral male leadership I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I think people trying to make sense of what happened isn’t making excuses and they do tend to think of mental illness for women as well. Finding out the reason is surely a good thing so we can do our best to prevent it happening to another family.
I think just blaming it on male violence is less helpful because it’s fatalistic and doesn’t leave room to properly investigate the cause.

I don’t know enough about this case to guess what went wrong and they’re still piecing together what happened.
In my experience, though, mental health is part of the reason. That’s not to say that everyone with mental health problems is a risk, but some definitely are. Getting medication wrong can make things much worse and individual reactions can be severe. Not everyone will kill - we are all different - but some have done.

I was once told that the average suicidal person takes about 20 minutes between the decision and the action. That’s not a lot of time for a distressed person to think through the options.

I think just blaming it on male violence is less helpful because it’s fatalistic and doesn’t leave room to properly investigate the cause.

Because for most of the male perps, they are indeed not MH cases. Many are highly functioning (esp middle class family annihilators). It is effectively the male version of throwing all the toys out of the pram.

It is the polar opposite for women though. Most of those cases are either being the long term victim of DV and defending self/children, or just wanting an end to it, or MH issues (and legitimate ones).

You only have to look at news coverage to see the utter reversals going on. The female perp is immediately painted as 'evil'. The male perp, endless columns of what a nice guy he was, why did he snap, oh the financial problems, oh the son who killed himself 15 years ago, oh the weather changed. Reasons. Or rather, grasping any excuse to excuse male violence, male entitlement.

Double standards, for goodness sake's, witness the double standards.

A change of pace, I share Katrina Miles' poem, that was shared via her mother's facebook page, from 2014:

I'm battered not broken

I stare into the depths of my worries
The crease between the frown
The hollowness of my cheeks is an echo
My stomach beats to the litany of my hurts

I stare and stare and stare
Hoping for salvation
Hoping hoping hoping
All peace is lost, fragmented, worn
I glare myself into submission

The shrieks of my children
The echo of my shouts
The thump of my dignity slammed against a wall
The odour of stale beer has a name called fear

The creak of a door
The sound of a petrol ute
Stiffens our shoulders, hurtles our spines uptight
Paste those fake smiles, quick hurry quick hurry quick hurry

Shh shh child
Please Please Please be good
Be calm, be still
Make it easy,

Oh the shame
Make it easy
How can I be five places at once
How can I save my family from open handed fists, from cruel, persistent words

Obey, Obey, Obey, Obey
How I hate that world, that word
Obey Obey Obey obey
How can I break free

There is no freedom for me
I stare, I stare, I stare
I fear I am lost.
But my children my children my children

My children, my children, my children
They are not lost
They are not lost!
And so nor am me

I shout, I shout, I shout
No No No No
I leave, I come, I leave, I come
I have left ....

In my head I am there
Here I am suspended
Save my children, save, save, save them
In my head I am there

The walls echo with the thump of my body
The fists in the doors
The creak of a beer bottle being opened
The shame behind our doors.

I look in the young eyes that still love me
I ask myself, so ashamed
How can my children still love me
I stayed so long, so long

I am battered
My cells echo with his words
'No one would want you', 'worthless', 'nutcase', 'problem', 'your the problem', 'your fault', 'bad mother', 'look at your family history', 'I love you', 'bitch' .....
The agony is a death to my soul, pin pricks in my skin

I asked God to save me and he was there
I asked myself to save me and yet I could not
I look into my only daughter's eyes,
I look into my three son's and I can

I am battered, I am not broken
I am strong, I am fragile
I am bruised so deep I ache
I ache I ache I ache

I am battered, I am not broken

Katrina c. Cockman 22nd October 2014

LaSqrrl, thank you for posting that.

It is so affecting and poignant.

This is not suicide though - this is murder and then suicide to avoid the consequences of his actions.

Thus is not a momentary lapse but a calculated shooting of 6 other human beings.

If you really want to learn - read about Robert Farquharson and his murder of his 3 sons. Helen Garner wrote This House of Grief (2014) as a response to the crime and the ensuing trials, in which Furqharson is heavily depicted. The book gives great insights into the vindictiveness, maliciousness, the planning and then the calculated manipulation and grooming of family, police, community and public as well as in court, with all the floods of crocodile tears to back it up, to portray himself as the grieving father and to throw them off the scent.

The book documents the murders and the subsequent 2 trials which the author attended - it gives great insight. His ex wife's transition from being mind controlled through his coercive control (excusing his behaviour in trial 1 to some extent - to clarity and one of chief prosecution witnesses in Trial 2) - is also not only great to see but also contexts the difficulty of securing convictions against these types of murderers often.

The same can be seen with Mick Philpott but he was much more overt is his dangerous and anti-social behaviour and Cluster B traits.

Until one understand predators, NPD and psychopathic traits (Cluster B), then one buys the misleading gas lighting that these were good men who had some sort of momentary crisis. They are not - to carry out these heinous, planned acts requires low to no empathy and conscience - all psychopathic traits.

Popchyk, I thought it a kind of tribute to her, and her words saying what she had been through. How anyone can have sympathy for Cockman is beyond me. He is an abuser.

The only question that remains, was her father just as bad, or is he a patsy?

Thus is not a momentary lapse but a calculated shooting of 6 other human beings.
In two different buildings. That takes a fair bit of time to do really.

Yes, Farquharson was some piece of work. As is Freeman (throwing his daughter off the bridge). Both had the same motivation - to punish their ex-wives by taking away what they cared most about. I must follow up the Damien Little M-S, he deliberately drove into the water with two boys. He also had a gun in the car I think, no question that it was deliberate.

Little shot both children in the car first. Stopped off for coffee at McDonald's for himself, and somehow shot himself as he drove off the pier.