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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Transphobia or truths?

999 replies

TwittleBee · 11/05/2018 22:08

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
daimbars · 13/05/2018 16:04

Nope Angry rape threats are never appropriate (who said they were?!) and i happen to think prostitution is exploitative.

Bi11yOneMate · 13/05/2018 16:05

Not that my opinion counts for much, but I don't think it harms anyone to say that yes, some posters on MN have posted some genuinely transphobic things. We do not, actually, have a hive mind.
However, that vast majority of supposedly transphobic posts on here are not transphobic, just differences of opinion. AND if transphobic posts are reported, they get removed - thereby proving that the site itself, is not in fact transphobic

Now, can they please go after some genuinely transphobic sites? Top tip - these tend to have a higher proportion of male posters.....

spontaneousgiventime · 13/05/2018 16:19

Bi11yOneMate Firstly, your opinion counts as much as anyone else'. I truly believe that TRA have got us into a position where, unless you totally agree with everything they say you are a transphobe. The idea is shut down any and all debate. It's not working so they are now trying to close down anywhere that allows trans discussion. That is also bound to fail, women will open forums or other platforms, this is not going to go away no matter how loud transphobia is shouted.

therealposieparker · 13/05/2018 16:21

What is transphobia these days?

TERFragetteCity · 13/05/2018 16:25

Nope Angry rape threats are never appropriate (who said they were?!)

You did by suggesting that the death and rape threats didn't come out of nowhere. It's the most common reaction to women standing up against men, and is as old as time itself.

LangCleg · 13/05/2018 16:27

What is transphobia these days?

Do you mean what isn't? Cos it would, apparently, be a considerably shorter list.

Word means nothing any more.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/05/2018 16:29

You did by suggesting that the death and rape threats didn't come out of nowhere. It's the most common reaction to women standing up against men, and is as old as time itself.

Indeed, it's "look what you made me/them do", and it's repulsive.

TERFragetteCity · 13/05/2018 16:35

Indeed, it's "look what you made me/them do", and it's repulsive.

Stupid thing is - they don't just mean those angry TERFS - they mean any woman who doesn't lay down and let them do what they want when they want it...they seem to have a ring of cheerleaders who don't even realise that when the men say 'enjoy your erasure' - it means them too.

spontaneousgiventime · 13/05/2018 16:39

.they seem to have a ring of cheerleaders who don't even realise that when the men say 'enjoy your erasure' - it means them too.

^This, it's scary as hell.

TERFragetteCity · 13/05/2018 16:53

I don't understand what these women can't see.

PencilsInSpace · 13/05/2018 16:56

Not legally recognising people can change gender would have pretty devastating consequences for the trans people in this country

Please describe the devastating consequences for trans people in this country if the GRA were repealed.

daimbars · 13/05/2018 17:13

It all comes down to perception doesn't it. If you have a real and genuine fear that trans people stand a chance of erasing the whole concept of womanhood I can see why you are fucking terrified.

But what has made you fear this so much? I realise Mumsnet is not a hive mind but most of the opinions shared about trans people on this forum are pretty one sided.

Pencilsinspace I have heard transgender people say if they weren't able to access hormones / gender reassignment they would have committed suicide rather than continue living in a gender they didn't identify with.

Ereshkigal · 13/05/2018 17:13

TERFragettecity I agree those Tweets are appalling and inexcusable but they haven't come out of nowhere.

Where have all these "inexcusable" threats of violence come out of then? And why would you expect me to welcome their givers into female spaces exactly?

PencilsInSpace · 13/05/2018 17:14

I have heard transgender people say if they weren't able to access hormones / gender reassignment they would have committed suicide rather than continue living in a gender they didn't identify with.

Please describe what this has to do with the GRA.

Ereshkigal · 13/05/2018 17:17

Please describe what this has to do with the GRA.

Exactly. I pointed this disingenuous conflation out to daimbarrs yesterday and so did others and she has avoided it every time.

daimbars · 13/05/2018 17:18

Pencils currently the GRA allows people to legally change gender. I have recently discovered GC feminists want to take this right away.

TERFragetteCity · 13/05/2018 17:18

If you have a real and genuine fear that trans people stand a chance of erasing the whole concept of womanhood I can see why you are fucking terrified.

When women cannot meet without risking getting attacked, when venues have to be kept secret, when trans people call up in several voices to complain and issue threats to venues to stop women talking, when they turn up with baseballs bats - who wouldn't be scared?

When rape crisis centres are attacked, and when a shop puts ONE poster up supporting a female only centre, and gets piled on and attacked by TRAs, just for supporting women - and you have the fucking gall to say that 'if you have the fear that' - open your fucking eyes.

If you are female, they mean you too.

Ereshkigal · 13/05/2018 17:19

It all comes down to perception doesn't it

Yes, it does. And I don't think you're posting in good faith. Because you're not making the least effort to understand what people have already told you.

TERFragetteCity · 13/05/2018 17:20

The evidence is there - women want to debate and can't, and get death and rape threats for speaking out.

There really is no more to be said is there? This is MRA not TRA.

Ereshkigal · 13/05/2018 17:21

Pencils currently the GRA allows people to legally change gender. I have recently discovered GC feminists want to take this right away.

This has NOTHING to do with whether they are allowed surgery and hormones. Stop deflecting.

Ereshkigal · 13/05/2018 17:22

The GRA is a legal fiction which allows males to pretend to the wider world that they are female. It is a lie.

PencilsInSpace · 13/05/2018 17:23

currently the GRA allows people to legally change gender.

So given that the GRA has nothing to do with being able to access hormones or surgery, please describe the devastating consequences for trans people in this country if the GRA were repealed.

daimbars · 13/05/2018 17:24

Ditto Ereshkigal I'm not convinced you are making the effort to understand a more liberal / rational viewpoint.

Ereshkigal · 13/05/2018 17:25

Your viewpoint is not the most rational. I think you're badly uninformed and filling in the gaps with nonsense.

TERFragetteCity · 13/05/2018 17:25

Ditto Ereshkigal I'm not convinced you are making the effort to understand a more liberal / rational viewpoint.

Pretending that people can change sex is not a rational viewpoint and framing YOUR view as the rational one is quite frankly ludicrous.