Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

But I wasn't addressing all the self ID mess. I was addressing the "but I haven't seen anything transphobic on mumsnet" comment in the op and the "people only say mn is transphobic because they say everything is transphobic and want to shut us up " comments that float around here .

But that's the nub of the issue, I think. The self-ID mess is one that needs to be addressed, debated, discussed - here, elsewhere on line, in the news, in parliament, in properly conducted consultations (not "consultations" which only listen to one side).

But this isn't being allowed. It's being shut down with accusations of transphobia. (See, for instance the Guardian's modding policy - anything which tries to advance the view that there are circumstances in which biology matters gets shut down).

The end result is you get a situation where genuinely transphobic comments and questioning gender-critical comments both get removed under the blanket policy of silencing anything which might even vaguely be construed as transphobic.

This is a lose-lose situation. Free discussion is censored. And (because the word transphobia gets flung around so freely and uncritically) the word "transphobia" loses its sting, because it gets applied to pretty much everything which doesn't accord with a very limited party line. So I lose my ability to talk about women's rights, and transwomen lose their ability to call out genuine transphobia.

The end result is you get a situation where genuinely transphobic comments and questioning gender-critical comments both get removed under the blanket policy of silencing anything which might even vaguely be construed as transphobic

Which is what all the twitter warriors want.

Transphobia currently means woman identifying abusive male behaviour, and that ability is fucking staying dudes so you might want to change the behaviour.

Someone else's words but y'know - perhaps the exhortations for better behaviour should go the other way sometimes and then women might be a bit less hostile. But the exhortations never go the other way, do they? Cos, well, sexism.

Late to the party but the anorexia analogy is a very good one.

The anorexia/delusion analogy is sooooo good and so totally not offensive that MNHQ deleted the original post?

"The anorexia analogy is not "good", it's deeply offensive and a complete false analogy I'm afraid.

You may have felt you were suffering a delusion surrounding your body, but the thing that pathologised that delusion was that the actions you will likely have been drawn to take (excessive exercise, reduced calorie intake, purging etc.) were killing you."

And you think taking life-long hormones is good for a body?

And you think taking life-long hormones is good for a body?

Lots of people take drugs that have negative physical side effects to ease emotional and psychological symptoms.

Are you saying they shouldn't?

The anorexia/delusion analogy is sooooo good and so totally not offensive that MNHQ deleted the original post?

Being apparently unsayable doesn't have any bearing on how good an analogy it is.

"Lots of people take drugs that have negative physical side effects to ease emotional and psychological symptoms.

Are you saying they shouldn't?"

Best avoided, if at all possible, I'd say. Drugs are, of course, sometimes necessary - but shouldn't be the first response to emotional and psychological symptoms. Especially when treating children.

Well I suppose that fits your narrative better doesn't it?

No, it is an observable reality. I don't have "a narrative" as you so sneeringly suggest.

If you treat this all as some sort of gothcha competition then you really are in the wrong place on a feminist board.

I am sure there are other places you can enjoy telling women off for not agreeing with you, you are rather missing the point of this one.

Interesting. So your sarcastic post implying you disagree with me is not telling of "women" who disagree with you but me replying in a similar manner is telling "women" off?

Or are you going to accuse me of being male because I don't agree that mumsnet is free of transphobia?

Do you know, I think natgt just joined up to tell us how transphobic we are.

Anyone spot the pattern there?

Or are you going to accuse me of being male because I don't agree that mumsnet is free of transphobia?

No, they're going to accuse you of being a man because you don't fit their rigid gender stereotypes.

Well I'm sorry to wipe the smile of your emoticon but I'm a long term mumsnet member who mostly lurks but name changes after every few posts.

Ask I keep saying, I would like the gender critical discussion to be done without making offensive sweeping statements which imply that: all trans are perverts, rapists , terrorists and other such offensive twattery. And I would like the avoidance of denial that such things are said on mumsnet.

Well I'm sorry to wipe the smile of your emoticon

Don't worry - you haven't.

*BrandNewHouse added a post post far more engaging than my flippant one - perhaps you'd like to address that too?

I did in my second paragraph

The pattern that if enough people say it, it must be true.

Yep. Dead dogma.

Oh was that what that was?

I don't see so many generalisations on here. I see intelligent women talking about feminism and trans ideology.

If talking about transactivists, or gender ideology, is counted by you as "generalisations about all transwomen" - then you and I will have to agree to differ.

And I would like the avoidance of denial that people are trying to shut down debate on this forum - they absolutely are.

They are going after advertisers, dogpiling on twitter, reporting to google, screenshotting and doxxing users on here, demanding users posts are deleted, and are banned . Someone has tried calling the police on mumsnet last night, but it doesn't look like they got very far.

Transactivists think any discussion is transphobic - they are trying to shut us down.

Now now, don't be sneery
I'm a bit sick of saying this but again I was specifically responding to the earlier posts of "ive not seen any transphobia on mumsnet!" So I replied with some examples of it. I have said several times I don't disagree with discussion of self ID etc etc im just saying it should be done in a way that isn't bigoted. And if your going to ask me what bigoted means I would refer you to my earlier post.

"people only say mn is transphobic because they say everything is transphobic and want to shut us up " comments that float around here .

You said this earlier - but it is demonstrably true that TAs are trying to shut us down. As I detailed upthread. All debate is transphobic according to TAs. C4 got the same feedback from a lot of TAs - #NoDebate is the hashtag.