Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

Exactly ! So let's not give them any excuse ! If I was an advertiser faced with screen shots of some of the offensive stuff I've listed I wouldn't want to be associated with it either.

But discussions such as the ethics of children on hormones , feminists being physically prevented from joining meetings etc? I'd want to be on the right side of that .

How can we "not give them an excuse" if any discussion of trans issues and gender ideology is seen as transphobic?

I think I just have more faith in people than you. I believe if people come across as concerned rather than prejudice hiding as concern then when the odd twitter warrior comes along and claims mumsnet is transphobic because people are saying vagina hats at a women's march isn't exclusionary people will role their eyes and move on.

Did they also roll their eyes and move on when the vagina fairy cake stall was cancelled, or when Michfest was cancelled because of transactivist attacks? Yes, they probably did. Because it happened.

Rolling our eyes and moving on is exactly what they want us to do. They want us not to talk, not to make a fuss, while our language, our meetings, our equality laws are being eroded.

Well quite, Toe.

Go on twitter/facebook/most places online actually and have your so-called nice, non-offensive chat about trans-politics, Nat.

You'll be a big old bigot just like the rest of us!

natgt
The consensus appears to be that we do not all agree.
If you take the trouble to read the Stonewall information you will see that what you are characterizing as transphobia are the areas where we say what Stonewall says.
100 years ago we got death threats because we were anti men and now we get death threats because we are anti transgender identified men. Demanding that we be nicer about it and walk on eggshells so we do not draw the attention of the abusers is absurd.

OP a lot of the women on these boards have genuine fears, but to the outside world these fears can seem irrational, another word for an irrational fear is phobia ... you can see where I'm going and why Mumsnet has a reputation of being transphobic. It all comes down to whether you think there is a real threat or not.

all trans are perverts, rapists , terrorists and other such offensive twattery. And I would like the avoidance of denial that such things are said on mumsnet.

Sorry, unless you link to a post where people said all trans people are these things, I don't believe you. Anyone can join up to MN and plop a transphobic post for shits and giggles or as a false flag exercise, obviously.

Not all Catholics abuse young boys. It would be outrageous to state that they did. However, can we examine how the Catholic Church as an institution covered up and sheltered child abuse by people in power? Yes we should very much be able to do that.

Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.
Is that the transphobia you are referring to, natgt
Maybe this one, material reality has a well known transphobic bias.

Exactly ! So let's not give them any excuse !

You remind me of the only woman I've ever truly hated. She went to my old church and she was a house group leader. I hate her because a member of her life group went to her for help, she was being badly beaten up by her husband. The life group leader told her to submit more, that if she was more humble and submissive her husband would stop beating her. Of course it didn't work. It didn't matter how much she scraped and bowed, there was always something, always an excuse.

Certainly some interesting reading here everyone.

Thank you for providing me with answers.

I'm going to approach the subject to my friends and family when I see them.

Exactly ! So let's not give them any excuse ! If I was an advertiser faced with screen shots of some of the offensive stuff I've listed I wouldn't want to be associated with it either.

Really? I think advertisers know who buys the products they advertise on here. Otherwise they wouldn't spend the money advertising on here.

Isn't it amazing how a site accused of being transphobic and an echo chamber for misinformation and conspiratorial nonsense, refutes it and endlessly provides misinformation, and conspiratorial nonsense?

What misinformation and conspiratorial nonsense are you on about?

You can't change biology. Babies will always be born to women, and eggs will always be fertilised by sperm provided out by men. That's the basics of human existence.

It is how all of us got here.

BrandNewHouse I'm not saying there hasn't been some bad behaviour from TRAs - it's whether the level of fear on Mumsnet is proportional to the risk they pose.

Personally I can't get too worked up about some idiot on YouTube telling me to enjoy my erasure but it seems to have severely unsettled some people.

BrandNewHouse I'm not saying there hasn't been some bad behaviour from TRAs - it's whether the level of fear on Mumsnet is proportional to the risk they pose.

Death threats, rape threats, actual violence and intimidation are "bad behaviour"? Way to go minimising it. Nice to see the true colours anyway.

Personally I can't get too worked up about some idiot on YouTube telling me to enjoy my erasure but it seems to have severely unsettled some people.

I don't think that's the only thing we're upset about.

San Francisco Library, promoting VAW in the name of 'trans culture'.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3232446-San-Francisco-Library-promoting-VAW-in-the-name-of-trans-culture

Here's some more of that bad behaviour. What are they like, eh!

I'm not saying there hasn't been some bad behaviour from TRAs - it's whether the level of fear on Mumsnet is proportional to the risk they pose.

You mean like these threats? Have a little wander through the website why don't you?

terfisaslur.com/

TERFragettecity I agree those Tweets are appalling and inexcusable but they haven't come out of nowhere. I asked on a different thread if rad fems would repeal the existing GRA and the majority said they would.

Not legally recognising people can change gender would have pretty devastating consequences for the trans people in this country. More devastating that reading a few hateful Tweets.

Questions from a liberal feminist to the rad femswww.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3245474-questions-from-a-liberal-feminist-to-the-rad-fems

They are inexcusable but you have just excused them as ' they haven't come out of nowhere'. You managed to contradict yourself in your own post.

birdsdestiny I was explaining not excusing

So rape threats are an appropriate response to women saying things you find alarming?

I know liberal feminism can get a bit wishy-washy sometimes but you'd think that would be a bridge too far even for the "prostitution is empowering" types.