Channel 4's Genderquake Debate is heavily criticised/ boycotted(?) by prominent transgender activists & allies .

[R0wantrees]

Transgender campaigners and organisations have released an open letter to Channel 4 criticising Genderquake, a season of programmes touted as an exploration of the gender debate, as "counterproductive".
Signees are particularly concerned about Genderquake: The Debate, a studio discussion hosted by Cathy Newman that promises to look at what gender means in 2018. It will discuss topics including: 'what defines our gender identity', 'how that affects our rights', 'should it be easier to change gender' and 'does gender matter'.

The letter, published by indy100 in full below, argues that the debate will give legitimacy to transphobia, prejudice and the notion that trans identities are up for discussion. This concern is presumably stoked by the presence of Australian-born academic and writer Germaine Greer on the panel, who has previously said transgender women "can't be women". continues...

"The letter is published in full below and has been signed by dozens of prominent transgender and non-binary activists and campaigners - and allies - alike, including Fox Fisher, Owl, Stephanie Hirst, Juno Roche, Travis Alabanza, Kate Llewellyn, Jack Monroe and India Willoughby."

www.indy100.com/article/genderquake-the-debate-transphobia-channel-4-open-letter-campaigners-germaine-greer-8341481

Silencing women", when clearly women are speaking up on these things, and will continue to do so

And get rape and death threats for it...but no matter, it is just women eh?

I agree it wasn't the wisest spon but a lot of the problem is being saying this one infraction to being typical of the MO of 'TERFs' and therefore write the whole argument off. Again, we are held to higher standards than anyone else.

Monroe was hecking at the Bristol meeting and stormed off in a huff, yet was the one demanding the removal of a woman last night. And it's nothing to the intimidation that women have encountered at meetings when they are trying to discuss this. TRAs physically stop us trying to enter meetings, cover their faces and shout abuse when we try to organise our own events. And at media events such as this, the bias is obvious. No wonder women get frustrated.

So if the choice is to accept being shut up or to shout, I'm going to fucking shout and shout fucking loud.

(From a review of Laurel Thatcher Ulrich's book, not the book itself)

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth Totally agree with all you've said in that post. I also have no problem with heckling. My argument is what was said not that something was said.

spontaneousgiventime

The heckling has done us no favours at all. Yes, people were frustrated and they had reason to be but the story is not what the panel said it's what the hecklers said.

I agree. It’s all everyone is talking about. If there hadn’t been the heckling, the TAs should have nothing to complain about and the media story would have been about how one sided this sham debate was. Instead Munroe has “evidence” of the “transphobia” they supposedly suffer everyday.

Agree the penis thing was stupid.

Anyway, another day, another shitshow. And so it goes on.

Off to take the dug walkies

LizzieSiddal That's my point. Heckle and shout out about things that are worrying women. Shouting penis just made us look bad and gave people like MB something to complain about.

Thanks Melamin. Noted

There's something really odd about all this. The press are completely ignoring Sarah Ditum's contribution which was the heart of the gender critical side. They are consciously and deliberately biased.

On a side point, it was also odd how the transman and gender fluid woman were sidelined. Ash also sat there quietly for ages before finding a way to contribute - which was trying to silence Sarah Ditum. The two TIMs were the stars and heroes, Greer was the appointed villain, and all the rest were supporting cast.

it isn't the same.

Yes it is Jessica

Heckling from a TV audience and disobedience in a public place is exactly the same.

Twitter is the new banner unfurled. Don't for a moment try to put us in our place.

Agree Spontaneous, so frustrating.

Of course they'd have something to complain about. They always have something to complain about! Take your pick - Sarah Ditum talking about male violence and self id in the same breath, Germaine Greer saying a man without a cock is not a woman. I've seen complaints on twitter that Venice Allen was allowed to be in the audience and protests that Caitlyn Jenner was invited. Several trans activists refused to take part before it even happened because they won't 'debate their existence with terfs'.

Has everyone forgotten who trans activists are? These people complain about women talking about their bodies and they complain about women not referring to themselves as cis. They complain about women meeting to discuss gender ffs!

It's about time we had some visible on a mainstream tv channel heckling! We deserve this representation. It was a terrible piece of crap non debate and some of the best bits of it were seeing Julia Long and company in the background pissing themselves at the utter nonsense being spun. I am energised by women publicly mocking this crap, seeing their sense of humour in response to the po faced foot stamping demands of male narcissists.

Shouting “Penis” repeatedly, at a trans woman, is not compatible to smashing a window.

Of course they'd have something to complain about. They always have something to complain about! Take your pick - Sarah Ditum talking about male violence and self id in the same breath, Germaine Greer saying a man without a cock is not a woman. I've seen complaints on twitter that Venice Allen was allowed to be in the audience and protests that Caitlyn Jenner was invited. Several trans activists refused to take part before it even happened because they won't 'debate their existence with terfs'.

This.

*comparible

Much is being made of the heckling because TAs have nothing else. They had no argument and no logic. Jenner and Bergdorf sounded like out of touch elitist idiots. Anyone clueless enough to be impressed with that is already a gender cult victim. Other anti feminists who tuned in will see a couple of man hating feminazis arguing with ridiculous men in dresses - the minds of these groups of people were not going to be changed by this set up.

Women who tuned in and are on the fence will see women being shut up so men can speak. Most of them will recognise this. They may not listen to Greer but they'll appreciate her forthright humour. They will have heard Ditum's absolutely fair concerns shouted over by Munroe and Jenner. "We have laws against rape"?! Please. Women know how seriously rape and sexual assault is taken by the 'justice' system.

These women may not turn to the dark side of the feminists yet but this will have set many on the path to their peak.

Please don't say that they actually said "We have laws against rape" in this debate JoanSummers (I haven't watched it yet) - that just shows they have no clue what it is like to be a woman if they actually believe those laws are able to protect women

Alice Thomson writes in The Times:www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/the-show-about-sex-every-parent-should-see-kxpc9v0nn
(extract)
"The intensity of the debate around gender now feels seismic. I remember writing about it a few years ago when it hadn’t yet become a divisive issue. A family court judge mentioned that there were an increasing number of cases of teenagers wanting to transition against their parents’ wishes. At the time it seemed like a legal and medical conundrum.

Now it has become a faultline. Feminists debating on Woman’s Hour or Mumsnet seem trans-fixed. When Germaine Greer suggests trans women can’t join the girls’ club, she sounds more like an intolerant, regressive Ukip member than the author of The Female Eunuch."

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3244211-Janice-Turner-to-have-a-word-with-Alice-Thomson

I paraphrase but yes Bergdorf shouted down SD with something to that effect and that was followed by Jenner repeating same. They have no idea what it is to be female and it showed.

I was almost sick in my mouth at the beginning when the host went round the panellists and asked their pronouns. What a way to start!

Shouting “Penis” repeatedly, at a trans woman, is not compatible to smashing a window.

I understand what you are saying. I agree. But in terms of 'terrifying' people it is comparable now. That's where we are at in main stream media.

I'm not a great one for conspiracy theories but the broadcast of this programme and the fall out seems to have been seized on by all kinds of progressive media to pull things together, pump out the "trans people are oppressed" message, and to present the radical feminists as unhinged and the meanies.

To my eye it looks like reasserting control over a situation that was starting to go awry.

nauticant I can agree with that, this is why I say shouting penis at a pair of trans women did us no good at all. It made us look like bitter harpies.

The interesting thing to me spontaneousgiventime is that that bad behaviour by the gender critical people is readily weaponisable against them but the behaviour on the other side seems out of reach to be used for criticism. It's being discussed here, but the media at large don't want to touch it. They're happy with the meanie feminists line and then to leave it at that. The imbalance is striking.

Do you think women new to the debate will be more concerned about some women heckling than:

• silly pronouns
• 2000x more trans identifying children
• children being put on drugs that sterilise them
• rape and sexual assault brushed off as a non issue
• Caitlyn Jenner's bizarre rambling being given centre stage

A PP mentioned that Question Time has heckling all the time. Anyone who had caught five minutes of Parliament 'debate' will have seen heckling. Women are heckled in the streets from an early age. Get yer tits out, give us a smile love, what's your problem you a dyke or something? Men heckle each other in the pub, at the football, at work, over the playstation, far far worse than this, let's get some perspective here.

nauticant Again I agree. Women have to be impeccably behaved while the TRA behave like thugs, yet we are the bad ones. Until reporting of bad behaviour becomes truthful and fair, women are going to be castigated. It's always been this way and it makes my blood boil.