Mumsnet Grass Account

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Have just grassed you up for banning them @MNHQ

They said "Mumsnet you left us no choice"

I think you are supposed to hang your heads in shame

They are deleting posters for saying 'bless'.

How is that 'doing their best'?

It could be that we've been making one crap decision after another for that length of time, yes. Or that we've been trying really really hard to find a middle ground

Im not trying to be obnoxious here and get into an argument Kate, but I honestly think that's been the issue all along. This debate has now been raging on here for years.

MNHQ tried to strike a balance between a misogynistic TRA ideological position versus a pro-woman scientific Gender-Critical one. You can't balance that. There is no middle ground. You never should have tried to pander to an ideology where males refuse to let women use words unless they only say those words when they mean the opposite of what they actually mean. It's bonkers. You were never going to be able to play to both sides on this. You should have sided with women, not men, at the very start.

@Fairenuff

You need to be more professional. Get your house in order. Decide on your guidelines, be clear and enforce them. .

Gosh, I've said three times on this thread alone - we are currently considering what more concrete guidelines will look like.

Calling us unprofessional really is a dig that cannot but be taken personally by individual mods, so it would be great if we could avoid that if possible from now on.

I don't want to argue with you Kate but I am really not very sure where the boundaries are. I've been here for more than 10 years and I've had a handful of posts deleted in that time (and I always knew when I was being a GF). So you'd think I'd have a pretty good idea of where I was overstepping. But I truly don't right now. And that is very frustrating as I'm sure you can imagine

Mumsnet will always be a place to discuss this. I really don't think we'll be let down. There'll be blips but I'm convinced MN is taking the long view.

And 'ending up on twitter' means nothing when there is a concerted campaign that shut MN down

So as I said, we're thinking very carefully about how we can make more generic guidelines that will probably be less flexible and more black and white, but hopefully will be clearer and make the moderation of this board less challenging

I actually think that will help. People are often testing the boundaries because they are genuinely unsure of what the boundaries are, and it is frustrating when some posts seem to stand when they should be deleted or vice versa. Inconsistent moderation also seems to cause issues with regards to this.

I think on the specific topic of trans identified people clear guidelines would be extremely helpful to both posters and moderators. Hopefully would actually allow better debate if people know what the allowable parameters of discussion are.

Of course, I reserve the right to spit the dummy if these guidelines ban saying that a man cannot become a woman etc

And in case it's not clear, I am totally on your side. I stand by the I sent. You deserve it

How are you suppose to know if someone is in a minority or discriminated against group?

No, how are you supposed to know if it's because they are in that group, or whether they are "just a dickhead" as you seem to think is objectively obvious about CJ? And yes I believe TRAs to be the number one threat to women's rights in the UK right now, because what they want is to make it impossible to discuss and organise against sex based oppression. So I do think a lot of them are dickheads for that and other reasons #sorrynotsorry

Gosh, I've said three times on this thread alone - we are currently considering what more concrete guidelines will look like.

You've had such a long time to decide this. Why is it only now that you are addressing this issue? And how has it been ok to delete and ban people when you haven't even decided what your guidelines are yet.

I'm sorry but in my opinion that is unprofessional.

It's nothing personal. You are a business and this should have been sorted a long time ago.

@Fairenuff

They are deleting posters for saying 'bless'.

How is that 'doing their best'?

We did row back on that and acknowledge that we'd been overzealous. But it's not reasonable, I don't think, to refust to acknowledge that those kinds of asides and digs can often be the difference between a simple statement of bio fact, say, and a post that is inflammatory and goady.

Actually, your tone there to me sounds pretty abrasive , Fairenuff. That's the kind of thing I'm saying is utterly disheartening for the mod team when it's as relentless as it is on here. I don't think it's necessary at all.

Best thing for MN would be to spend ever so long deciding on the guidelines, consulting, reconsulting etc etc. Any guideline that isn't absolute submission and compliance will just fire up even more attacks. TRA are such bores. It's all they do. That and selfies. They're so obsessed, unlike most of us who have got actual lives to be getting on with.

One other thing. As far as I'm aware, I've only had one post deleted and I deserved it, I was being a GF and was zapped. If I've had more posts deleted then I don't know I have and if I had been on MN quite a bit that day might not remember what the post said. Would it not be better, when deleting a post to email it to the poster saying it had been deleted. It would make it clearer we had breached TG.

And now I'm going to go and have some dinner on my Sunday off. Not said to be passive aggressive, but genuinely to give you some insight into the amount of time and energy by individuals that goes into keeping this discussion possible.

Night all.

Yes, I would also like an email to let me know if my post has been deleted and I would like the post quoted and the reason for the deletion.

Any chance of a reason for the deletion now. I have gone near 3 years with no deletions except posts I asked to be deleted. Now in a couple of days, I have had 3

Seriously giving in soon. I know thats what the TRAs want, but when my posts are all being deleted, and then it can be claimed that they were deleted for transphobia or whatever..its just pointless.

My feeling is that there are some extremely controlling people out there with some extremely unorthodox beliefs including odd views on parenting and child safety.

They are highly manipulative, obsessive and narcissistic. They believe the whole world and everyone else in it is always wrong and needs to be modified to be consistent with their view that they themselves are always right.

My feeling is that people like to pick on Mumsnet because women are easy targets and mumsnetters aren't keen on people whose career is based around recommending harm for other people's children.

Mumsnetters stand in the way of their personal messianic narrative and must be silenced at all costs.

I say fuck psychos. I wish MNHQ would too.

Actually, your tone there to me sounds pretty abrasive , Fairenuff.

How? I'm asking questions and I'm stating some home truths.

This forum is not some small happy family corner of the internet. It's right out there, in the twitter spotlight and there are lots of issues that need to be addressed.

This is very important to lots of your users. It's serious. Mods need to be made of sterner stuff than that I think.

You shouldn't be working on your day off @KateMumsnet. But that's really not posters' fault

@KateMumsnet I'm genuinely sorry the mod team are feeling so stressed and demoralised. Most of the time you do all do a phenomenal job. The reason I first joined MN years ago was because I was so impressed with the way MNHQ engaged with posters and moderated in a genuinely thoughtful manner. It's highly unusual in any forum, let alone one of this size

Right now though no, you're not doing a phenomenal job and what you are interpreting as digs are in fact legitimate criticism. Moderation is indeed all over the shop. For a perfect example, look at what happened with @Popchyk's posts in the Guardian thread:

1. Popchyk posts a quote from a letter in the Guardian and says she agrees

2. That twitter account screenshots it and publicly reports it via your shiny new 'come troll us, twitter' reporting mechanism for non-members

3. MN mod team delete the post

4. Popchyk posts 'why was this deleted when it didn't break the talk guidelines' and repeats the content of her deleted post

5. MN mod team reinstate the post

6. That twitter account screenshots the 'why was my post deleted' post and reports it via twitter

7. MN mod team delete the 'why was my post deleted' post

8. Popchyk posts 'why was my "why was my post deleted" post deleted?'

9. MN mod team reinstate the 'why was my post deleted' post

You need to stop courting twitter trolls

I hope you take lots of time to come up with more specific guidelines and I trust you to do a good job on that.

Meanwhile you could instantly gain a lot of goodwill and trust by dealing with this twitter fiasco you have facilitated. Just refer them to your email address as many times as needed and if they give you aggro block them.

Is anyone getting the feeling @KateMumsnet can't win today?

I explained why I think, in my opinion its obvious CJ is a dickhead. She voted for trump, she likes guns, she is engaged to someone her daughters age which is cringe and she slags off her exes in public. She thinks the hardest thing about being a woman is wearing dresses....isn't that daft? And isnt she out there in the public eye enough to warrant singling out? Is she old enough and healthy enough to make that okay? I think so. It is just my opinion and I am no one important.

My point was that I don't see a difference between CJ and other media transactivists such as Shon Faye. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

I'm actually getting the feeling that the mods are being poorly served by their employer.
Mumsnet are a profitable business and we are the customers that drive that profit.

I'm still trying to work out what kicked this all off today. I stand by what I said upthread, there is a lot of jitters on the board over moderation by Twitter and that is the cause of a lot of upset. However, something started this today and I agree the deletion of posts by Popchyk was totally ridiculous. Mods, I do appreciate what you do, but surely even you can see that does make MN look like it can't tell is's arse from it's elbow.

We need to know the TG and they need to be applied in a fair and across the board way. Emails with the offending post explaining why they were zapped will also help. However we are all adults here and forcing rules you would give a toddler will not go down well.

A fine balancing act, but, I have faith it can be done.

Yes, I would also like an email to let me know if my post has been deleted and I would like the post quoted and the reason for the deletion.

I'm not fussed about the reasoning but I would also like to be notified if I have anything deleted. I don't go back through the parts of threads I've already read/contributed to, so if I do anything "wrong" I'll never know and just carry on being "wrong".