Cotton ceiling?

[Freespeecher]

I'm ok with most of the terminology on here but this one has me beat.

Anyone care to help a fellow out?

The Cotton Ceiling is a term used by trans activists who have a penis to describe the fact that lesbians don't want to have sex with them, and so don't see them as real women.

Magdelen Berns;

A trans person talks about the cotton ceiling;

Lesbian festivals & meetings are regularly attacked for being transphobic - Michfest is an example. Its history is already being erased and rewritten.

Thanks UC.

The first thing I heard about cotton ceiling was this (copied from a site through google - there's loads out there on this though, google yourself if you wish):

"Toronto, Ontario (March 28, 2012): Today, the Ad Hoc Coalition Against the Cotton Ceiling (the “Coalition”) submitted a petition with more than 250 signatures to Planned Parenthood Toronto (PPT) to ask the organization to reconsider hosting an event that promotes the sexualization of females.

PPT is sponsoring a March 31 conference in Toronto called “Pleasure and Possibilities.” According to Sarah Hobbs, Executive Director of Planned Parenthood Toronto, the purpose of the conference is to continue conversations that began at an earlier conference entitled “No More Apologies: Queer Trans and Cis Women, Coming/Cumming Together!”

The subject matter of both conferences is specifically sexual in nature. One of the featured workshops is entitled “Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women.” The workshop facilitator has defined the “Cotton Ceiling” as follows:

The cotton ceiling is a theory proposed … to explain the experiences queer trans women have with simultaneous social inclusion and sexual exclusion within the broader queer women’s communities. Basically, it means that cis queer women will be friends with us and talk day and night about trans rights and ending transmisogyny, but will still not consider us viable sexual partners.

The term cotton ceiling is a reference to the “glass ceiling” that second wave feminist identified in the workforce, wherein women could only advance so high in the workforce but could not break through into positions of power and authority. The cotton represents underwear, signifying sex."

I believe Riley has a youtube lecture about how lesbians how won't submit to dick are bigotted bastards,

Not seen it I admit, that's the gist, I understand.

It's interesting that so much of trans activism is concerned with SEX. Sex has not been a primary concern of other rights groups I dont' think. They've mainly been concerned with violence, exclusion from parts of society / jobs /voting, lack of bodily autonomy, rape.

Like I say, interesting that so much of the stuff fro TRA comes back to sex. And telling women off. And telling women they should ignore their boundaries / sexual preferences etc. And fuck who they're jolly well told to.

Should have had an "etc" after rape..

There's plenty to fight for. People not wanting to haev sex with you when you want to have sex with them is not generally super-high. In fact, it's the reverse, a lot of problems for women and girls are caused by people (men) wanting to have sex with us when we dont' want to have sex with them. And having a feeling of entitlement to make their desire known, through street harassment, sexual assault and through to rape.

I believe Riley has a youtube lecture about how lesbians how won't submit to dick are bigotted bastards,

Several.

Although in many of these cases it's a kind of generic desire / hate combo, rather than anything to do with the actual woman / girl

Or specifically is a hate act against someone they know

Or it's because they can, in the case of a lot of CSA

And so on

Don't mean to imply that these things are solely an expression of desire, as they are highly aggressive, often violent, and also often "scatter gun". Often they are display of dominance.

Anyway.

I believe Riley has a youtube lecture about how lesbians how won't submit to dick are bigotted bastards

It's here if you can bear to watch it:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=k5GYlZKfBmI

I'm not a lesbian but I feel offended on their behalf watching this!

And because Riley is a DARVOing narcissist, Riley tried to claim that wasn't the takeaway message people should have got.

The cotton being is just the trans version of the demands made by Incel.

*ceiling

Good thread op and thank you for the informative replies. So basically cotton ceiling is the same as the incel movement as it is about men’s protest that women very unfairly won’t have sex with them because women don’t fancy them and as a result they are oppressed and it is an injustice against oppressed men. This is scary.

'Transincelism' is your new word for today people. I really don't see any difference whatsoever between the demands of the proponents of the cotton ceiling and the incels. None at all. Male entitlement to sex across the rainbow spectrum.

"The term cotton ceiling is a reference to the “glass ceiling” that second wave feminist identified in the workforce, wherein women could only advance so high in the workforce but could not break through into positions of power and authority. The cotton represents underwear, signifying sex."

This was actually what peak transed me. Taking the idea of women finding the language to talk about inequality in the workplace and using it to create a rapey metaphor about breaking through women's underwear. With no apparent awareness of how awful it sounds.

This is a good piece which really conveys the male entitlement at the heart of the cotton ceiling mentality:

https://tgforum.com/wordpress/the-cotton-ceiling

But, I am getting messages from women. Lesbians do not want us. It is a clear and sobering fact. It is like finding a needle in a haystack if you find a bisexual or lesbian cis woman who accepts transwomen. I know of one friend who found a lesbian and one who is married to a bisexual woman. That is out of ALL of the transpeople I know or have made the acquaintance of. It takes a damn near miracle.
I will press on, however. I am no quitter. I am a rebel. I don’t accept things just because that’s “the way they are.” I will continue the quest for my fair maiden. The Cotton Ceiling must be broken. We are not perverted men seeking to rape lesbians and turn them into slaves to the patriarchy. We — ARE women. We ARE females. We ARE people. We have feelings.

Particularly note how trans identified males can legitimately have preferences but lesbian and bisexual women can't.

Sardine I have seen it. The presenter is so very happy and charming about it all which somehow makes what they are saying even more shocking.

They explain that sexual attraction is really to self named gender and not to biological sex, and that you are a bad person if you fail to immediately reorganise your mind, body and soul to politically correctly accommodate this. It is deeply homophobic and portrays sexual orientation (of women) as a choice which can (and should) be altered by trying hard enough, and not an inborn thing.

The presenter does generously allow that if you have been raped or abused and have immediate trauma that means you (as a lesbian) currently find sex with a male bodied but female identifying person genuinely traumatic then you may be permitted a short period of excluding sexual partners with penises while you get over it. However you are expected to work on yourself to achieve this ASAP.

It's as shocking in its utter dehumanising of women and rejecting of their right to feelings, boundaries or sexual attraction that excludes men as it is in the bluntness of it's vocabulary. The cotton ceiling ffs. Breaking through unwilling women's underwear to get sex from them. Its as utterly bizarre that this was permitted, unquestioned, in a public place as it is that barbed wire baseball bats designed to batter non compliant women are put on show as an 'art exhibition'.

It boils down - as much of this boils down - to an utter inability to accept the word 'no' .

Funny timing of this thread as the same topic has just blown up on reddit

www.reddit.com/r/LesbianActually/comments/8h5sw8/my_sexualityorientation_is_towards_biological_sex/

I've been reading this board for some time but this is my first comment. What struck me most was "underwear, signifying sex". What an utterly bizarre understanding of underwear. And menacing. Underwear means keeping your genitals clean and not caught in zippers and comfortable. This is how I would guess 99% of us are using our underwear on any given day. To say underwear signifies sex is warped beyond belief. If you really wanted I suggest sexy underwear specifically, then surely silk or lace would be a better term. Cotton underwear is the most boring, plain, non-sexy type. So what on earth is going through the minds of someone who uses this term?

Not even getting started on the obvious consent issues.

@AllyMcBeagle

I'm not a lesbian but I feel offended on their behalf watching this!

^^This. I think that 'the cotton ceiling' has peak-transed women more than anything else. The entitlement, the rapey-ness, the refusal to accept other's boundaries, it's conversion therapy. "How dare you not be attracted to me".

That second video in UpstartCrow’s post is fascinating - it unwittingly goes right to the nub of the problem.

The transwoman in that video is absolutely correct when she says that people cannot claim that they believe transwomen are women whilst also declaring that they would never have sex with a transwoman (if their sexual preference is for women).

The problem that the TRA movement has is that no-one really believes that transwomen are women. Even their own acolytes. It makes me sad for them.

The Cotton Ceiling

I really don't see any difference whatsoever between the demands of the proponents of the cotton ceiling and the incels. None at all. Male entitlement to sex across the rainbow spectrum

I have noticed this too. There seems to be a wave of tra/mra/incels demanding access to women's bodies or we are bigoted. Sex as a right, where if males don't get it they can't be blamed if they rape / best / drive cars into women.

I think it is important to note that the event was open to men and transwomen only.
Basically a pick up artist training seminar.
Funny, not funny, how the PUA don't get the attention and admiration from the corporate media that they received a few years ago in this the #metoo moment.

The cotton ceiling debacle was the catalyst for the recognition of the 2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime, as well as one of my favorite maxims: People who refuse to take no for an answer are not safe to be around.