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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cotton ceiling?

87 replies

Freespeecher · 06/05/2018 09:33

I'm ok with most of the terminology on here but this one has me beat.

Anyone care to help a fellow out?

OP posts:
MrGHardy · 10/05/2018 16:10

"But therefore, it must also be transphobic if all lesbians with penis (such as Riley) won't date other lesbians with penis?! Have I got this right?"

Answer: "Ofc I would date lesbians with penis, I just haven't found one I am attracted to yet."

Every. Single. Time.

ps although ofc there's also transwomen that date other transwomen with penis.

leggere · 10/05/2018 16:36

I'm learning MrGHardy, slowly but surelyWink

AllyMcBeagle · 10/05/2018 16:40

So have I got this right, very confused? Rileyself is a person with a penis who feels he is a woman. Right so far? Riley wants to date women, therefore Riley is a lesbian with a penis? Riley thinks all lesbians without penis should date lesbians with penis otherwise they are transphobic? But therefore, it must also be transphobic if all lesbians with penis (such as Riley) won't date other lesbians with penis?! Have I got this right?

That's all correct, although Riley and other lesbians with penises would probably say that they don't have to date other lesbians with penises if it triggers their dysphoria about their own body..

Bowlofbabelfish · 10/05/2018 16:45

I wonder if actual female lesbians are allowed to only sleep with actual female women on the grounds that penises trigger their dislike of penises?

Or is that too radical?

God I feel so, so sorry for and angry on behalf of lesbian women. Utter madness

CharlieParley · 10/05/2018 20:14

I do wonder if any of these people are at all monosexual. Or have actual relationships with actual people. Coz the argument they make against a female homosexual orientation that excludes males is that once you become romantically involved with someone, their genitals cannot be a dealbreaker unless you are a terrible transphobe.

I'm going TMI here just to illustrate a point, so please forgive me for the personal anecdotes to follow (and for how shallow I was in my youth).

I am attracted to men, fairly manly men at that. If I dated a bloke and then come sex time found out they did not in fact have a penis but a vagina instead, I would indeed be completely turned off. Utterly and completely.

In the case of a lesbian dating a transwoman with a functioning penis this would be even harder to imagine. They'd be extremely unlikely to pass as female having gone through puberty etc. But as transmen tend to pass better, let's assume I hadn't a clue before sex time.

I know finding female genitalia or a replica of male genitalia where I expect to find fully functioning male ones would turn me off because a) dishonesty is a complete turn off to me and I would expect to be told in advance and b) much smaller things have completely killed any attraction I've felt for guys before.

Such as the time that after dancing around each other for weeks and fancying the guy like crazy and dreaming of nothing but going out with him, when he finally, finally leant in for the kiss, his nose kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger and I literally run off after saying sorry I can't. Never told him why, it was too stupid after all, but I was completely cured. Not a shred of attraction left.

But fair enough, that was before going out with the guy so how about this relationship: Been going out with this one for quite a few weeks. Lovely dude, romantic, attractive, attentive. Went swimming one sunny day, diving in the lake, canoodling. Until I see a bogie had caught in his moustache. It was like a switch had been flipped in my brain. That was the end of that relationship.

Or one of my great loves, dumped me and broke my heart, then wanted to get back together after we wrote to each other for years (actual letters, sigh, how I miss that). Anyway, we met. And I was so excited, so in love, already planning the night... No idea what happened to me, to him, but it was without a doubt the second most boring date I've ever been on. I couldn't get away fast enough. He was completely confused of course and I couldn't exactly say what had killed off the spark. But dead it was.

So for these weird people to think that something as major as the wrong genitals couldn't possibly turn you off if you were romantically involved, it makes no sense to me given the nose, the bogie and the mindnumbing boredom that killed it off for me.

leggere · 10/05/2018 21:51

Well that was interesting CharlieGrin But I know what you mean, sort of. Don't think you're allowed to say weird people though, free speech is on it's way out!

Ticketsfrom · 15/05/2018 16:49

I've had some straight feminist friends ask me about my experience of the 'cotton ceiling' , upset on my behalf, and - as a lesbian born a woman etc. I have ZERO experience of this. So I started asking my gay/lesbian friends - and we live in a very trans friendly city, know many trans people - none of them knew what it was. None of have heard of trans women putting pressure on gay women, or had any experience at all about it. Nada.
I'm wondering if it's one of those chatboard/media myths that exist like scissoring being a thing that lesbians do...

Ticketsfrom · 15/05/2018 16:51

Oh, and personally, I am absolutely NOT attracted to penises, no interest in having sex with someone with one. But nor I'm I feeling any pressure to do so, or feeling guilty or bigoted for saying that either. I won't be having sex with anyone any time soon because I feel I should. And young lesbians are far more bolshy about this sort of thing than me in my experience

Hygge · 15/05/2018 17:27

This makes me really angry.

As others have said, I am not a lesbian.

But no woman has to justify why she doesn't want to have sex with somebody else.

And if you're going to be a dick about why a woman doesn't want to have sex with you (and especially if you make a YouTube presentation about why she's wrong to turn you down), you've just confirmed to her another good reason why she should avoid you.

Never mind the penis, the fucking ego that it takes to do that is repelling enough.

lovetheway · 15/05/2018 18:14

Charley I love your post!

DJLippy · 15/05/2018 18:40

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3246838-Lesbians-are-Legends-Vote-in-the-Guardian-Pride-Power-List

If you want to vote for GC lesbians in the Guardian pride award please follow this link....

Ticketsfrom · 15/05/2018 19:29

Don’t be angry Hygge. This isn’t an issue for lesbians. The only ones who seem to be making a big deal out of it are the odd trans woman that none of us have heard of and straight feminists. It’s not an actual real life issue for any lesbian I know .

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