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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

What do your male partners make of GRA

112 replies

WelcomeToGilead · 05/05/2018 19:37

My husband is the stereotypical male who is unaware/blind to women’s rights in general.

Or should I say... WAS

He’s really getting angry and I’m glad to see it. This is a man who couldn’t be bothered watching Handmaids Tale when it was on because he felt it was utterly irrelevant to his existence (as an educated, well off, privately educated white male. )

Just wondering what your partners are thinking? Has anybody managed to gain their partners support? Those of you with daughters.... are you managing to talk sense into their dads?

OP posts:
TheUterati · 05/05/2018 19:44

Almost Ex-DH thinks the entire thing is insanity. Thinks transsexualism full stop is insanity. Totally gets the AGP aspect of it. Understands the link with 'transracialism'. He got there on his own - didn't need to convince him of anything.

ElenOfTheWays · 05/05/2018 19:45

Mine got it right away. We've had many a chat long rant from me about it. He signed and tweeted the petition. We have daughters and a granddaughter so maybe that's part of it, but honestly I think he's always been an ally.

MIdgebabe · 05/05/2018 19:50

He thinks the whole thing is totally bonkers. Men are not women. If they want to look that way, they are still men. he did think I was over reacting to start with, fortunatly tra's keep doing stuff.

Original poster
WelcomeToGilead · 05/05/2018 19:52

I think that is very heartening to hear. Most men I know are stuck in the politically correct hinterland and are just not thinking it through Hmm

OP posts:
Baubletrouble43 · 05/05/2018 19:53

Mine too. Exact same story as you op. Even down to the handmaids tale!

MistressDeeCee · 05/05/2018 19:54

OH is a mellow soul, the 1st man I've met in my life who is completely non-sexist. I don't think he took much notice of issues until gender-neutral toilet signs went up at his 18 year old's college. He was quizzical. & most unhappy about the connotations. Although he had said re Self-ID before that you'll always, somewhere and everywhere, have a set of insecure men finding ways to put women very firmly in their place as to them, women are the easiest to victimise.

Nightowlagain · 05/05/2018 19:56

My DH and I argue about this issue whenever I try and talk to him about it! He is very left wing and somehow thinks that although I have always been accepting of everyone, suddenly I've become a raging bigot!

I have tried to explain my concerns, and he thinks I'm overreacting, not about the things I worry about but the possibility that any of it will happen at all. He says Self ID meaning anyone can access safe spaces will not happen and exemptions will remain. I counter that if we stand up against it and protest then it might not happen, but being complacent and assuming it will all be fine will mean it will go through. We managed a conversation the other day where I showed him a lot of the things I've found out and it didn't end up in a row, but I have to be really careful how I approach it with him, he thinks I've gone all right wing and that upsets him.

He keeps quoting the 50% attempt suicide stats, and thinks that because trans people get such a hard time then we should all be nice. He gets defensive when I talk about male violence because NAMALT so it's difficult. He is really gentle and would never hurt anyone, so when I talk about men as a class being a threat to women as a class he gets pissed off and says I shouldn't generalise. I have pointed out that if I was on an otherwise empty train with either just a man late at night or a woman, he would be more concerned about the first scenario.

Anyway, he thinks I'm obsessed and should stop reading about it, but I think it's really important. I try and not mention it too much in case I alienate him further. I plan to send him relevant links as they come up, with actual facts that he can't argue with. The trouble is that only right wing papers like the Daily Mail are reporting the issues, so he discounts it as right wing scaremongering.

Wow that got long, but I've been meaning to start a thread about this to see if I'm the only one having trouble getting the message over IRL. It really upsets me that he thinks I'm being a bigot, but I don't seem able to explain it properly or something. Sad

Theinconstantgardener · 05/05/2018 19:56

'PC gorn mad'mine said! Seriously though hes signed the petition.

spontaneousgiventime · 05/05/2018 19:57

I'm a widow but my late DH was fiercely protective of our DC. I think he would have been fuming his kids could be in any kind of danger. Hell, shortly before he died he was still picking our (then) 16 year old DD up from the bus-stop.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 05/05/2018 19:58

DH thinks it's all mad but also that I'm overreacting and it's a fringe issue. I've yet to convince him of the far-reaching consequences, and we have daughters. I find it really frustrating.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/05/2018 20:00

Mine gets it -and he got the handmaids tale. He's always been a rational bloke with a good sense of what is fair and just (and what isn't) but having a daughter has made him care more about feminist issues (we met at uni as total equals so he didn't so much see issues in relation to me IYSWIM)

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 05/05/2018 20:00

DH wouldn’t have thought too much about it before I mentioned threads from MN. However the men i work with that I’ve spoken to all think it is bonkers. It has come up at a lot at work because some of their toilets have been made gender neutral. Many of the concerns raised on here have come up unprompted in discussion. They do think you can change gender.

PinkbicyclesinBerlin · 05/05/2018 20:01

They don’t think you can change gender.

TheBadgersMadeMeDoIt · 05/05/2018 20:04

Mine agrees with me that the whole situation defies all sense and reason...but he's not as militant about it as I am.

Having said that, he signed the petition...and yesterday he asked me some pertinent questions and looked like he was genuinely interested in the answers.

For example, he asked why it's only women's rights to privacy and dignity that are threatened. Why is it not a problem if pre-op trans women invade men's private spaces? I explained in terms of a pre-op trans woman using the men's showers at the pool versus a pre-op trans man using the showers that I and our 6yr old DD use. I asked if he thinks there's a difference.

"Hell yes!" was the reply.

MotherTERF · 05/05/2018 20:27

@Nightowlagain, I hear you...my DH thought I was turning into a bigot and seemed genuinely puzzled why I was getting het up about this issue.

His turning point was sport, I gave him examples of cases whereby TIM had beaten women and he was horrified.

Since then he has been more open to the issue and understanding of the ramifications.

AngryAttackKittens · 05/05/2018 20:27

My DH thinks the whole thing is nonsense and that it's obvious that people can't change sex. He also understands what AGP is, so that helps. He was nearly punched by a TIM much larger than him a while back for muttering something under his breath about men bullying women when the TIM in question was getting aggressive and nasty towards a cashier in a shop.

Original poster
WelcomeToGilead · 05/05/2018 20:33

Sadly I think we need the men to get more vocal

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 05/05/2018 20:37

Eldest is a Gay man in his fifties. He said I was overreacting when I talked about the consequences both intended and unintended of the raising of the transgender umbrella in 2004.
Then he looked into it and was mad as hell when he saw what abusive adults were doing and saying to children.

Effic · 05/05/2018 20:43

Mine just simply couldn’t believe I was right .... couldn’t believe that anyone would think it was ok that someone could just say “I’m a women now” and that would be that. Was disbelieving of TIM taking part in women’s sport, being placed in women’s jails & refuges etc.
Now he’s bloody raging and as involved as I am in calling out this insanity

PoulaFisch · 05/05/2018 20:47

Nightowlagain
Buy your husband a beer. He seems like a decent man...

ChickenMe · 05/05/2018 20:51

Mine thinks it is bonkers but probably thinks it'll never happen.
Fwiw I work with men and those I've told also think it is ridiculous and those with daughters were particularly angry

Weezol · 05/05/2018 21:05

No OH but:

Straight male close friend : WTF? Science! Women's rights FFS. Men need to address their own violent/demanding entitlement. What about my mum/sister/little neices/friends safety and rights? Wonders if the timing is deliberate
re:Women's Suffrage centenary. No to self id.

Gay male close friend: but science. Doesn't like the TRA attitude, thinks them a risk to his female family, women generally. His sister is a lesbian and she and her OH are a mix of angry and scared - have already had a run in with the ladydick brigade locally. Doesn't know other male friend, but also thinks the timing of escalation is suspect. No to self id.

My Dad - Totally peak transed. Concerned about impact on sex segregated spaces, womens rights etc. Especially as he was around in the sixties, supporting contraception, employment rights etc for women in the sixties. Worked in STEM, set up access courses to encourage women into engineering. Thinks people are good at whatever they're good at regardless of sex. Went 'wibble' when he saw the pink brain/blue brain stuff. Very glad he's not growing up in this climate, thinks it is a bad time to be young generally. No to self id.

All three are very different when it comes to employment and politics, income etc.

Weezol · 05/05/2018 21:08

Apologies for repetition re: the sixties. Also should say that the only one I have made aware of this issue is my dad.

PunkrockerGirl59 · 05/05/2018 21:13

I think dh got it at the airport last year. There was a massive queue for the ladies' toilets and I was plaiting my legs
I said to dh I was going to self id as a man and go into the gents. He looked a bit horrified but it did generate a useful discussion. I didn't go into the gents because the smell from it was permeating from the entrance to all the surrounding shops and restaurants. It was rank Envy
The irony was when I eventually got into the ladies there was a bloke in suit sauntering out of the cubicle and washing his hands. To this day I wish I'd challenged him, the smug fucker. He could have nipped to the gents but hell no, let's queue up with ladies and make them feel uncomfortable because that's what entitled male twats feel it's their God-given right to do.
I will never, ever be so meek and restrained again.

Xenophile · 05/05/2018 21:14

Neither DH nor any of the surprising number of trans people we know believe you can change sex.

They are all really worried about what's going to happen should self ID come in. Trans friends because it's going to make their lives so much more dangerous. DH because he's worried that friends of his are going to get their heads kicked in because of how much more dangerous their lives are going to be.

It's a mess.