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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

100% Hate-Proof Debate Opportunity!

125 replies

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 00:41

(An invitation to pour scorn on a man for being an old credulous hippy and not for hating women)

Why not? I'm a bit Wine, & you lot look like you could do with cheering up. There is a serious point here, but yes I am Mad, and here's how. I thought I'd share something original that is at least accusation-proof and, in my wildest dreams, debatable!

Here is the plate, hand me my ass. Bonus points for unconscious sexism.

*
There is a magic to MN/Fem boards. I believe in magic.
Some boards feel like a Spell has been cast that aims to make a woman feel safe and trusted, as though it were an actual, physical 'Safe Space' (refuge, etc.).
The words of the Spell are the Rules of the Debate for a particular topic. The words are spoken in parts, in many posts and statements. The Rules of MN/Fem aim to create a 'Safe Space for All Women,' to talk or to listen and not be afraid. Fearless debate needs this as a minimum requirement.

A 'Safe Space' ceases to exist once it is compromised in any way. Any male presence will compromise it. If one woman feels compromised, all women are. A male presence is as much of an intrusion here as it would be in any physical space, but there is a difference.

Any male voice here is not destroying a Safe Space, it is breaking a Spell. The threat is almost identical, but there is no spell in a real-world shelter, just locks and doors. Your shelter has transparent walls and advertises its address. The personality of the board adds the locks & curtains and creates Seclusion. When secluded from Men, Women can feel safe.

Any debate with a Male presence can always be perfectly civil (depending on the male...) but there is a sense that the spell blows away a bit with every post I make. I notice it as I type, and as I read. I am intruding, whatever my intentions.

I see the impatience, irritation or frustration in some posts (not all aimed at me :)), and they could be read as if it were the Spell that is being defended or complained about, rather than the Male presence that is being attacked.

As protective and powerful as it is, a Spell is not real like a wall is, it is an illusion. It is powered by belief. You are not secluded here, but can feel like you are. That is enough for the Spell to work. My voice reminds you of the illusion, but it was an illusion before I arrived.

The Spell serves a much-needed purpose, but it can sometimes be destructive if used without care. You are all magicians, whether you know it or not. If you cast the spell as a defensive reflex, what you are doing is a little like flinching. Sometimes a big, strong Shield can get in your way as much as your attacker's.

I'm not suggesting you change a thing, but just don't be fooled. Seclusion or isolation is a hard place to be if you want to get off your back foot.

As they used to say, blessed be!

OP posts:
GeorgeFayne · 04/05/2018 03:10

I have to politely disagree about the "man's presence breaking the spell of the thread stuff." I think most posters initially thought I was a man given my name. (I guess Nancy Drew was not as popular in the UK. Her best friend was George Fayne, and her character was undoubtedly an early feminist. Actually, Nancy probably was as well, though she could be a bit annoying.)

As a woman who is fairly perceptive to tone, I just don't see it. We've been dealing with men for our entire lives, and I'm certainly not about to let one keep me from sharing my thoughts in an internet forum. :)

Italiangreyhound · 04/05/2018 03:15

So I am relatively late to the debates and also relatively reluctant, because actually I want a live and let live policy. But the world is so biased against women and girls that even speaking up for women and girls is seen in this world as bigotry?

With this Alice in Wonderland attitude then women and girls do need to stand up to this. To me it is not magic, it is practical, earthy, real.

I'm a Christian and I know the Celtic Christians used to praise God while sitting on the loo. It's the real, earthy and practical that appeals to me here, not the magic.

Sadly, the need to fight for our basic rights has actually stolen the magic for me. It has made me less tolerant. Sad

But all the time I am trying to see the best in people and hope for the best, prepare for the worst but hope for the best.

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 03:34

I see now that it could all be read as "therefore, stop doing it and let me in". and that's not an issue I care to raise or even dispute. I told you I suck at this. I'm not trying to tell women they are wrong, I'm pointing out that a strength can become a weakness, badly.

I've had this feeling since before MN that all our worst stereotypes were being used against us. Coming here hasn't done much to suggest that women aren't suffering from the same tactic. We are wound up or pressured and then we revert to all the behaviours that any individualist would run a mile from. While that's going on the Pricks win.

OP posts:
MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 03:40

Bonus 3am Biblical Trivia -
KJV="Prick"
NIV="Goad"

As in "kicking against the pricks"

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 04/05/2018 03:41

@MadBadDaddy I must go to bed now but I just wanted to say common sense is your friend here, I think. So, for example 'our worst stereotypes were being used against us.'

Others can use stereotypes against us but the worst bit is when we buy into that and begin to believe it for ourselves.

"We are wound up or pressured and then we revert to all the behaviors that any individualist would run a mile from."

We can learn to work on our own behaviour. As someone who has had anxiety and still has some level of OCD I know I am not the finished article, I don't need to revert to any negative behaviors because of pressure, I need to find a way to escape the pressure. Surrounding ourselves by people who we respect and who respect us, really does help. That is not easy. My kids give me a fair amount of grief but I am learning to cope with it in positive ways. Anyway, night night.

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 03:48

I think bed is the most awesome suggestion yet.

Thanks for the gentle words, and I probably deserved the others.

And thanks for listening. I'm doing my best to keep the noise down.x

OP posts:
TotallyLibrarianPoo · 04/05/2018 04:01

Sigh, Mad, I've seen some of your posts around the threads, and I think you are sincere. Some of your posts have been good, some have been funny, but I have to agree with a previous poster, 'please just be yourself'. I think it shines through every now and again and has added to the discussions.

This post just feels uncomfortable to me, and I'm unsure what it is you are trying to achieve. Maybe call a 'do over' and start fresh from this point?

LaSqrrl · 04/05/2018 04:24

This post just feels uncomfortable to me, and I'm unsure what it is you are trying to achieve

The OP reads like Schroedinger's Womany Woo. Like, he* has heard about a different atmosphere with all-women, but can never witness it.
(*handle is Daddy, so I assume the 'he' is ok?)

We of the Uterati meet at a particular phase of the moon - we don't tell you what phase, because we don't like interruptions. We automatically know what phase of the moon, because our ovaries start vibrating at exactly 20 Hertz (XX get it?!). When a man does interrupt, we turn him into a toad - although it is hard to see much of a difference sometimes.

So some nights, when you hear a lot of croaking, you know why.
Some man interrupted us.
The end.

TotallyLibrarianPoo · 04/05/2018 04:31

@LaSqrrl Grin

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 04:44

Thanks, TLP for all those notes. Being myself means I struggle with words. I've made myself look foolish but couldn't have said what I wanted to say without a platform. I'm happy to have been heard and all too soon I will be yesterday's clown.

I don't know about you, but I've just watched a 3-page untransphobic discussion/pile-on centred around the usual hapless spluttering transperson and no-one mentioned pronouns or MNHQ or thread deletions.

After the last week or so, it was like old times. Sue me!

OP posts:
DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 04/05/2018 05:07

And I knew a few pagan women in the 80-90s that would have loved all this stuff.

reminds me of boyfriends who do something weird like lick your knees and tell you their ex used to love it, when it's blatantly obvious that actually he's a knee-licking fetishist but doesn't want to admit it

LaSqrrl · 04/05/2018 05:17

when it's blatantly obvious that actually he's a knee-licking fetishist but doesn't want to admit it

ewwww, I can never un-read that!

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 04/05/2018 06:28

sorry Grin

BarrackerBarmer · 04/05/2018 08:37

You have us at a disadvantage here MadBadDaddy.
You know we are female because most of us are explicit about that.
I don't know whether you are an actual Daddy who identifies as a woman, or a woman who identifies as a Daddy.
Because the general fuckery of language that is key to trans ideology obscures all clarity online.

I've assumed the former, but given your thread here about how males alter female spaces I'd appreciate your clarifying for us.

LangCleg · 04/05/2018 08:56

when it's blatantly obvious that actually he's a knee-licking fetishist but doesn't want to admit it

EYE BLEACH! STAT!

The spell you refer to, OP, is women controlling their boundaries.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 04/05/2018 09:08

'please just be yourself'. I think it shines through every now and again and has added to the discussions

I agree with totally

I like madbads sense of humour but i think this might have missed the mark this time

I think most of us lurked for ages before posting, my default is 'flippant' and that's definitely back fired on me on occasion

Tinkletinklelittlebat · 04/05/2018 09:17

The thing is, who knows how many regular posters are men or women because mostly they don't specify. It's a mistake to assume they're all female, occasionally a regular poster will mention something in passing and you realise their sex but for the most part you couldn't tell them purely from their posting style or what they say. Equally look at the posts of the regular MNetters who are out on the boards as trans (who knows how many are on the boards who just choose not to share it). They're perfectly open about their biological reality as well as their chosen identity but unless they're specifically referencing it as part of their post you wouldn't be able to guess their sex or pick up on a difference between their posts and anyone elses, they're just MNetters. The only men that tend to get jumped on (anywhere on MN) are the ones who start a post with 'man here' and often goes on to talk about 'you ladies'. That's condescending, not participating, and many posters will point it out since naturally who enjoys being condescended to, while other posters have their socialisation triggered and start servicing the self declared man while complaining about man hating harpies treating a poor man the same as a woman behaving like that.

Was it Miranda Yardley who pointed out a very interesting difference between 'identifying AS a woman' - ie The Men Have Arrived, this is how we've redefined you all to remove the bits of you we find yucky and inconvenient, this is how we've decided you will do it better, these are the new rules we're imposing so follow them or else and obviously we're the superior and centred members of this club we've just hijacked so start servicing us (with baseball bats for anyone who inflicts the word 'no' on us) - and 'Identifying WITH women' - ie people who just join in and share the same interests, concerns, and naturally prefer to be part of that group.

The latter are very welcome - MY and DH are doing amazing things for women's rights while being open about their biological sex being an important part of their chosen identity.

WidowWadman · 04/05/2018 09:28

I don't get the impression that feminists are unconditionally welcome in FWR, there's too much scorn heaped onto feminists that do not subscribe to a very narrow bit of the spectrum, which funnily enough includes ridiculing their physical appearance.

But as you were

AssassinatedBeauty · 04/05/2018 09:32

@WidowWadman I don't understand what you mean by "which funnily enough includes ridiculing their physical appearance."? Could you give an example?

WidowWadman · 04/05/2018 09:35

Sneery comments about "blue haired" people, for example. They have become more frequent recently but I can't be arsed to dig out links right now

AssassinatedBeauty · 04/05/2018 09:39

How is that ridiculing their personal appearance when no one has any idea over the Internet what anyone else looks like?

It's using a particular hairstyle as a shorthand for a type of person. Not ridiculing them for it. And it's not something that I personally do, nor do I think it's particularly common.

AntiqueOlive · 04/05/2018 09:39

Blue Rinse Brigade has been a well used phrase for decades.

Nothing new about blue haired people.

NotTerfNorCis · 04/05/2018 09:42

Blue rinse brigade used to mean elderly conservative women, now it means young identity politics women (and men, and genderfluids).

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 04/05/2018 09:43

Am I the only one who is wondering what the fuck is going on on this thread, other than the OP having been a little over indulgent on the vino. Or skunk.

Having posted pissed myself I can testify that it's the surest way to make a fecking eejit of yourself. Best to log out of MN before you hit the pinot.

Hope the head's not too bad this morning OP

LaSqrrl · 04/05/2018 10:39

widow for clarification, I do refer to my age sometimes - mainly to show that the TRAs are basically targeting 'little old ladiesâ„¢'. Makes them look bad, to be picking on old women (and they do, even physically).