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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

100% Hate-Proof Debate Opportunity!

125 replies

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 00:41

(An invitation to pour scorn on a man for being an old credulous hippy and not for hating women)

Why not? I'm a bit Wine, & you lot look like you could do with cheering up. There is a serious point here, but yes I am Mad, and here's how. I thought I'd share something original that is at least accusation-proof and, in my wildest dreams, debatable!

Here is the plate, hand me my ass. Bonus points for unconscious sexism.

*
There is a magic to MN/Fem boards. I believe in magic.
Some boards feel like a Spell has been cast that aims to make a woman feel safe and trusted, as though it were an actual, physical 'Safe Space' (refuge, etc.).
The words of the Spell are the Rules of the Debate for a particular topic. The words are spoken in parts, in many posts and statements. The Rules of MN/Fem aim to create a 'Safe Space for All Women,' to talk or to listen and not be afraid. Fearless debate needs this as a minimum requirement.

A 'Safe Space' ceases to exist once it is compromised in any way. Any male presence will compromise it. If one woman feels compromised, all women are. A male presence is as much of an intrusion here as it would be in any physical space, but there is a difference.

Any male voice here is not destroying a Safe Space, it is breaking a Spell. The threat is almost identical, but there is no spell in a real-world shelter, just locks and doors. Your shelter has transparent walls and advertises its address. The personality of the board adds the locks & curtains and creates Seclusion. When secluded from Men, Women can feel safe.

Any debate with a Male presence can always be perfectly civil (depending on the male...) but there is a sense that the spell blows away a bit with every post I make. I notice it as I type, and as I read. I am intruding, whatever my intentions.

I see the impatience, irritation or frustration in some posts (not all aimed at me :)), and they could be read as if it were the Spell that is being defended or complained about, rather than the Male presence that is being attacked.

As protective and powerful as it is, a Spell is not real like a wall is, it is an illusion. It is powered by belief. You are not secluded here, but can feel like you are. That is enough for the Spell to work. My voice reminds you of the illusion, but it was an illusion before I arrived.

The Spell serves a much-needed purpose, but it can sometimes be destructive if used without care. You are all magicians, whether you know it or not. If you cast the spell as a defensive reflex, what you are doing is a little like flinching. Sometimes a big, strong Shield can get in your way as much as your attacker's.

I'm not suggesting you change a thing, but just don't be fooled. Seclusion or isolation is a hard place to be if you want to get off your back foot.

As they used to say, blessed be!

OP posts:
LaSqrrl · 04/05/2018 01:50

I'll go with
Under His Bird's Eye

Seagull maybe.

WomaninGreen · 04/05/2018 01:51

"Yeah I have my male voice what else am I supposed to do with it?"

Join a monastery?

WomaninGreen · 04/05/2018 01:53

Can you sing?

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 01:53

(PS you are casting your spell)

OP posts:
ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/05/2018 01:57

(PS, you are being a bell-end).

Point being. You won't understand because you're not here to listen. You're here to hector.

bluescreen · 04/05/2018 01:57

I'm here for the feminism chat, MadBadDaddy. You?

ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/05/2018 01:59

I'm totally up for feminist chat with MadBadDaddy.

ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/05/2018 02:03

It's always the same old tedious bollox though, 'humble, harmless' bloke tells women how they're doing their feminism wrong.

Why even come here and despense your wisdom?

What compelled you? (Other than booze and a burning desire).

Italiangreyhound · 04/05/2018 02:06

@BarrackerBarmer I cannot make head nor tail of the oppening post but your post stands out...

"I will say that there is something extraordinary about women speaking amongst themselves on subjects that matter to them. And that I didn't properly experience this until recently."

Mumsnet made me realise it too.

"And that the majority of my recent experience of this has been online." Me too, bu not just here, there are other places too.

"And I'm thinking as I'm typing and I'm realising that in real life I only speak to women in small numbers at a time or one to one, and rarely without men present." I speak with other women a lot but often with children present and so we talk about.... the children!

"The experience of being with a dozen or more women and talking about US is shocking in how rare and alien it feels to me. And it is completely different to when a man is there." Totally agree.

"It's not that I want to seclude myself away from men entirely." I actually would like to do this, but I;ve got a lovely husband and son, great father-in-law and nephews. I know men are not my enemy (necessarily) but Patriarchy is.

"It's that it is so unusual to be part of an exclusively female conversation that I'm aggrieved at how soon that 'magic' evaporates when a bloke arrives." It's interesting that although some of the women on here do feel scary (sometimes) I don't feel brow beaten, I still feel I can have my own opinions even if others do not agree. Most of the time. We are not a hive mind. It's great to be able to talk to other women.

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 02:09

I'm here not wanting this place to shut itself up or be shut down.

Trans, SelfID, - considering what a tiny minority we are, the issues affect everyone, but this is the only place on the entire internet where I can find any constructive or honest discussion. This place is a spa for the brain compared to others.

(If you feel attacked by mad beliefs, imagine how I feel swimming in them. Trans boards have always been refuges for people trying to make sense of a mystery. Our desperation has been used against us.)

There, I've said it.

OP posts:
ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/05/2018 02:11

Well quite, Italian, but as the great sage says (I think this was his point),

'It's an open forum'

(Just paraphrasing there).

ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/05/2018 02:12

Are you Trans Mad?

ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/05/2018 02:16

If so, and if you are in any way sympathetic and understanding of the discussions that go on around the issue of self-ID, a tip, don't burst onto a discussion board telling women how to discuss the issue.

It's a total own-goal.

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 02:20

Yes, it's why I tossed up a carefully titled topic instead of derailing someone else's.

OP posts:
WomaninGreen · 04/05/2018 02:22

" but this is the only place on the entire internet where I can find any constructive or honest discussion"

So why are you always talking shite here?

Take action.

If you are scared of the TRAs, if they think you are truscum etc then isn't it even more important that you stop talking shite here? you mostly come across as a goady fucker, I've seen you apologise before for "jokes" and trying to "lighten the mood" etc. I know you're trans. But you don't seem to be helping anyone, just talking egotistical crap. So I can only conclude you are just feeding your ego or here to goad.

No need to reply with a long wafty post about spells.

ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/05/2018 02:36

Ah, ok, my advice is to take the argument to the core.

Stop haranguing women.

Go speak to the people that are being literally violent and promulgating hate-speech.

I think you know where to find them.

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 02:39

I'm not really interested in defending myself. I'm not even particularly good at it. You don't have to like me, I'm just interested in what you thought of what I thought.

Also there is a lot of static about self-censoring going on lately that I find troubling. It queers your pitch, you are inhibited, frustrated, and I try to stay out of it and watch other posts describe how I feel.

I like magic as I understand it. I see magic here. Is that so terrible?

OP posts:
Elletorro · 04/05/2018 02:41

Are you a transman?

Are you a feminist?

What rights do you think should be based on sex?

What rights should be based on gender?

ILikeyourHairyHands · 04/05/2018 02:44

All this nonsense about spells just makes you sound like another TRA who sees women as gatekeepers to the magic kingdom.

Just be yourself, you're obviously struggling, and I don't like to see another human being in pain, but it seems you're looking in the wrong place for the wrong answers.

I honestly don't think you'll find them here until you start being brutally honest with yourself.

Transwomen are quite welcome on the FWR boards if they are self-aware.

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 02:55

This is some nonsense I threw out after a shitty week and not some plea for acceptance or a hug or anything.

Did the title somehow suggest I was Grant Mitchell Himself coming to 'sort it all out for the ladies'? At least no-ones mentioned trnph*bia so far.

OP posts:
MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 02:59

And I knew a few pagan women in the 80-90s that would have loved all this stuff.

OP posts:
DixieFlatline · 04/05/2018 03:03

And I knew a few pagan women in the 80-90s that would have loved all this stuff.

I did wonder why on Earth you ended the OP with ‘blessed be’.

MadBadDaddy · 04/05/2018 03:03

Little shout out, just in case

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 04/05/2018 03:05

@MadBadDaddy I was one of the people who encouraged you to start your own thread, so I am pleased you did that.

"Trans, SelfID, - considering what a tiny minority we are, the issues affect everyone, but this is the only place on the entire internet where I can find any constructive or honest discussion."

You are very right there, it does affect others.

"This place is a spa for the brain compared to others."

That's good to hear.

"If you feel attacked by mad beliefs, imagine how I feel swimming in them."

Personally, I did not feel attacked at all, I just did not understand the opening post.

I am a simple soul. I am not good at seeing the spaces in between things or reading between the lines.

I think for me it is relatively simple. Many of us want 'protection' and 'connection'. We want to feel safe but we also want to connect with others. The way that 'society' caters for these twin needs should be to balance out the needs of all of us. It's a tall order. But it is not impossible.

Italiangreyhound · 04/05/2018 03:08

The practical issues could be handled relatively easily with a third unisex/gender neutral/non-binary inclusive space with proper doors and sinks and opening onto a space communal area. With sex segregated hospital wards, hostels for the vulnerable and prisons, with protected areas for people who may need extra protections. These are practical things that require us to be able to recognize the biological sex of people.

Provisions for anyone with additional needs to the usual expectations of females and males, sounds fine to me, but not by denying biology.

The thing that bothers me is the gaslighting, the telling women what we know to be true is not true, denying female biology etc. That is something old school trans women did not do.

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