Women have the right to state that trans women are actually trans-identifying men

[Terfulike]

This is our right: to state simple biological truths.
We will not be told to lie.
We will not be silenced.
Biological lies must stop.
Biological lies have no place in UK legislation.

Buzzfeed have seen messages in a BBC women's WhatsApp group which suggest this is a debate happening inside the Beeb too: www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/leaked-messages-reveal-how-female-bbc-staff-have-clashed

To any gender critical BBC ladies reading, hello! ~waves~

Yup. You might legally be allowed to change your legal status regarding your sex but you can never change your biological sex. And that's OK. It's fine to choose to present differently from the stereotypes you see as opposed on your biological sex, it's fine to change your name and your clothes, it's fine to be trans (though if it is accompanied by gender dysphoria and distress you have my sympathy and hope for helpful treatment and therapeutic options).

I thought TIM/TIF stands for trans identifying male/female?

Didn't Jaycee (?) claim that to get a GRC, a declaration must be signed to ensure that they understand that they haven't changed sex? But I may have misunderstood as they are then issued with a birth certificate with the new sex on.

If that is true, and someone with a GRC understands that they haven't changed sex, I don't see how someone who hasn't been through the process can claim to change sex.

I am not posting here any more, but just wanted to clarify the above.

You had to sign that agreement before surgery was performed (in the 1970s - I don't know about today).

Not before getting a GRC which did not come in until 2004.

Of course, biological sex cannot be altered. You should not need to be told that by a doctor if you have a grasp on reality.

The GRC changes legal status and guides day to day acceptance outside of agreed exemptions where sex based exclusions can occur - eg refuges.

It does not alter biological sex.

Sex can be altered on a birth certificate if you have a GRC (not unless) and even then the original record at birth is retained.

^“If transwomen self-ID are eligible for maternity pay or leave, it means the sex discrimination claim of being fired or badly treated for pregnancy is erased," a senior producer wrote in the WhatsApp group. "One loses that resource to a claim for sex discrimination - though of course the discrimination would still happen.”

A younger employee replied: “Shouldn’t trans women qualify for maternity leave though?”

“As TW [trans women] are biologically male, they will, by definition, only be in a co-parenting situation & would therefore eligible for paternity/co parent leave in the same way as lesbian/gay non biol co-parents," the producer wrote. "Or adoption leave, when relevant.”^

How could anyone read that and think the first woman didn’t have a point?
Transwomen can’t give birth, that’s just a fact.

Ah, thanks Jaycee. Thanks for the clarification.

A younger employee replied: “Shouldn’t trans women qualify for maternity leave though?”

But it does highlight the problem. This person either doesn't understand what maternity leave is, and why it is important for women, or was too keen to treat TIM exactly as if they are women, with all of the same issues. Or, more worryingly, they think TIM can get pregnant.

I think it was this one

or was too keen to treat TIM exactly as if they are women

So much so that they are happy to literally dissolve all practical applications of our sex based rights.

Terrifying.

I'm surprised this is still up! I agree wholeheartedly.

Or maybe they thought trans woman meant a female person who is trans, and therefore genuinely could get pregnant?

I think it's entirely possible that a TIM at some point might launch a legal challenge for maternity pay.

Remember that awful Dove advert that was all about the father who identified as a mother and the woman who actually gave birth didn't get a look in.

I agree. One thing I hear often is 'lets not obsess about our differences, let talk about what we have in common'. It sounds such a reasonable comment, but in reality it stops women taking about, well, being women and our sex based rights.

Or maybe they thought trans woman meant a female person who is trans, and therefore genuinely could get pregnant?

That would be my guess - and I completely see why you'd assume that the immutable bit is the bit that correctly refers to biology - TBH, that's why I prefer 'trans identified' - because it makes it really clear which sex the person is (and therefore which sex they would prefer to be)

Or maybe they thought trans woman meant a female person who is trans, and therefore genuinely could get pregnant?

Could be. But I find it hard to believe that someone prepared to wade into a trans debate at the workplace hasn't heard 'transwomen are women'. Especially at the BBC.

If men can truly become women why haven't all the males with X linked, life threatening diseases (passed onto them by their mother who was the carrier of said disease) transitioned and been miraculously cured??

That would be because males are XY chromosomes and female are XX. It is a fact that cannot be changed by surgery, self declaration or just a feeling.

Well, yes, they might have heard all the TWAW talk and still assumed it meant female is female.

I’m not just being awkward, I’ve definitely known people be genuinely confused about what was meant.

Science is a bugger to argue with innit

Isn't it very transphobic to state: that trans women are actually trans-identifying men? Mumsnet are supposed to not tolerate transphobic posts. Why is this going on?

Hmmm either because we're all bigots or perhaps because we have very real concern about the rights of women and girls?

It's all beyond parody now. Really cannot be capitulating to this nonsense.

Yep, only males can be trans women.

But it is transphobic to say trans women are men. That is the title and it's inflammatory and transphobic.

No it isn’t transphobic. Where does it fit in the protected characteristics of the sex equality act?

Fairly sad state of affairs, particularly for young women - for whom the app/chat was set up for (to mentor them). Instead it becomes:

Messages seen by BuzzFeed News show a deep generational divide among women fighting for equality at the BBC.

"There are TERFs [trans-exclusionary radical feminists] clashing with the millennials and just posting blatantly transphobic things in the chats," one BBC journalist who asked not to be named told BuzzFeed News. "It's not pretty and you can see younger women leaving the groups every time it comes up."

It sadly shows just how brainwashed YW are these days by the cult. They are brainwashed, because they run around calling anyone who is GC a TERF - and I hardly think the beeb is a hotbed of radical feminism, else I would have known about it, long before now. Not everyone who is GC is a radical feminist, in fact, most are not. They are GC.

But worse than that is, these YW are shooting themselves in the collective foot, leaving the very thing set up for them, to help them overcome the discrimination in career that - they may not notice too much in their 20s, but they will start to see it after that. And for what? To protect men's gender-feels?

One of patriarchy's long-held tactics is to 'divide and conquer', particularly working the generational divide among females. We see no better example than this one.

No, it's reality. No-one is doing anyone any favours by dancing round the fact that these people- however they wish to dress, style their hair, name themselves or which pronouns they prefer- are men.

We've avoided calling it like it is for years because everyone's felt a bit sorry for them and "they're not doing any harm". But all it's done is emboldened and legitimised this sense of entitlement to the extent where society is allowing men to define what "woman" means and eroding away hard won rights and spaces. No. Just no.