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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women have the right to state that trans women are actually trans-identifying men

147 replies

Terfulike · 03/05/2018 15:15

This is our right: to state simple biological truths.
We will not be told to lie.
We will not be silenced.
Biological lies must stop.
Biological lies have no place in UK legislation.

OP posts:
LaSqrrl · 03/05/2018 19:28

Isn't it very transphobic to state: that trans women are actually trans-identifying men?

If it is accuracy you are worried about (and you are not, LOL) then 'trans-identified males' is the accurate term.

Terfulike · 03/05/2018 19:30

No, it is not in the slightest bit transphobic to state that trans women are actually trans-identifying men/males.

I am not transphobic. Live and let live I say. For the last few decades I have had great sympathy for transexuals, whose dysmorphia has caused them such enormous suffering that many have felt impelled to take the huge and dangerous step of gender-related surgery.

Those transexuals whom I come across on mumsnet, on YouTube and at A Woman's Place meetings are usually, like most people, reasonable, tolerant and sensible. I respect and admire many of them a great deal, not just as kindred spirits, but as intellectual beacons, who have helped to shape my own knowledge, understanding and viewpoint.

Some of these individuals have been labelled Tru by TRAs.
Some lesbians have been harassed for having a particular sexual orientation.
Some feminists have been labelled T**Fs because they are trying to protect the biological vulnerabilities of other women and girls.

Perhaps some TRAs have their own phobic agenda.

Many of us are concerned about children, and wonder just where all this is leading.

OP posts:
KittyPerry77 · 03/05/2018 19:40

No, it is not transphobic to state that a tw is actually a man, just like it would not be homophobic to state that gay sex has no reproductive function or racist to state that white people have white skin.

The fact it is true does not mean it can't be used in a transphobic fashion, e.g. someone randomly shouting at a TW on the street that they're a man is of course transphobic harrassment.

Jeanhatchet · 03/05/2018 19:48

@Baroquehavoc absolutely bang on

SmartBoots · 03/05/2018 20:50

I have concerns about transwomen playing in women's sports, especially power sports. As a middle aged woman, I have watched as women's sports have blossomed over the last few decades and been very happy for them. For a teenager in the 80's, a whole new world seemed to be opening up for women.

I have now though seen many martial arts contests as well as weight lifting and many others where transwomen have obliterated their opponents which seems to be not only vastly unfair but will surely just uninspire the next generation of potential female sports competitors.

Does this make me transphobic as I've always felt I have a very chilled "live and let live" attitude to people.

spontaneousgiventime · 03/05/2018 20:56

People can call me what they will, I don't care. I am, from now on going to stick to biological reality. Pre-op they are TIM or TIF post op they are transsexuals. There is far too much leeway with gender and it's effecting women. So men have penis' women have vaginas and the hand-wringing pearl clutchers can all faint in horror, that's just how it is.

GenderApostate · 03/05/2018 21:51

I’ll just leave this here .

Why is this world renowned expert not being targeted, his knowledge of genetics must be literal violence .
m.youtube.com/watch?v=nQcgD5DpVlQ

VeraGrant · 03/05/2018 22:05

On the contrary, it is highly misogynistic to state that transwomen are women. Why is ‘transphobia’ deemed to be so much worse than misogyny?

2rebecca · 03/05/2018 22:48

Until recently I thought transwomen were f to m transsexuals. It seemed logical to me to think it meant a woman who was transexual ie now identified as a man. I suspect the term confuses a lot of people. At least with m to f transsexual it's clear.

ToeToToe · 03/05/2018 22:58

Agree with you OP - women should have every right to state this.

They're doing their damnedest to take that right away from us - take away our right to name reality.

MrsWooster · 03/05/2018 23:02

I'm with you: biology roolz ok. Someone who maintains the genitalia they were born with, remains the sex they were observed and recorded at birth. SomeOne who has surgery to modify their genitalia to resemble that of the other sex is a transsexual; they are still biologically the ex they were born as but, by convention and courtesy, live as a member of the opposite sex.

MariaMacLachlan · 03/05/2018 23:29

"Some of these individuals have been labelled Tru**"

Excuse my ignorance but what letters are replaced with asterisks here?

Terfulike · 03/05/2018 23:36

Sorry it was a typo should be 4 asterisks s, c,
u and m

OP posts:
OrchidInTheSun · 03/05/2018 23:40

Whatis - do you believe men and women can be transwomen or only men?

spontaneousgiventime · 03/05/2018 23:46

Slight de-rail, sorry posters, I am shaking with temper. Forgive this break in normal service, I will explode if I don't post this. I was busy when the post was made and the thread is now full.

@whoositwhatsit From your posts on the now full SF thread. You are a lowlife despicable piece of trash. A liar, a threat to a pregnant woman and her unborn child and a misogynist to boot. Now MN have your details if anything happens to that poster or her baby, we all know where the blame lies. I hope you rot in hell.

As you were...

BlackeyedSusan · 04/05/2018 00:08

@GenderApostate

thanks for thevideo link.

KittyPerry77 · 04/05/2018 00:15

It totally puts the lie to there being any comparison with racism or homophobia. Where does not being racist or not being homophobic ever equate to having to lie about someone's race or the fact they have gay sex?

This is the only hate crime where it is a crime to not lie. It's preposterous. We don't have to buy in to the beliefs of a Muslim and mirror them back to them to evade censure for being Islamophobic. Why is transphobia the only phobia that demands this?

CharlieParley · 04/05/2018 00:31

But it is transphobic to say trans women are men. That is the title and it's inflammatory and transphobic.

Science is not transphobic. Trans-identifying men belong to the sex class which possesses XY chromosomes and which is capable of producing sperm, ie they are a subset of men. Who prefer to identify as a gender role of the sex opposite to their birth sex.

This is what the trans refers to - a man who wishes to transition to a female gender role and expression. Of course the trans used to be shorthand for transsexual, that is people with extreme gender dysphoria who believed they would be happier changing their body to emulate the opposite sex.

But thanks to the trans umbrella redefinition of what it means to be trans, today 16 to 19 out of every 20 transwomen are completely unaltered, fully functioning men. So transwomen are indeed trans identifying men.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 04/05/2018 00:33

@GenderApostate thanks for that link but damn you for getting me lost the inevitable ted blackhole Wink

ToeToToe · 04/05/2018 00:33

This reply has been deleted

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OlennasWimple · 04/05/2018 00:39

I agree with the title

Slightly controversially, I also think that women, transwomen and anyone else also have the right to say "transwomen are women" and "the earth is flat" and "the royal family are all reptiles in disguise"

I don't agree with their views, and I might even consider them to be in denial of scientific reality and somewhat bizarre, but they have the right to say this stuff.

KittyPerry77 · 04/05/2018 00:42

I agree OlennasWimple that a man can have the right to say "tw are women", just not have the right to expect the rest of us to act like we believe it too.

ToeToToe · 04/05/2018 00:46

Yes, I think it's the insistence that nobody can disagree with "transwomen are women" that is the problem - that any dissent is being branded 'hate speech' .

ErrolTheDragon · 04/05/2018 00:51

Yes -I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. (An iconic statement written by a woman but commonly misattributed to a man, incidentally.

ToeToToe · 04/05/2018 00:59

Argh. Happens so much (she says, fresh from DD's school project about Ada Lovelace).

"Anonymous was a woman" is another good one.