Women have the right to state that trans women are actually trans-identifying men

[Terfulike]

This is our right: to state simple biological truths.
We will not be told to lie.
We will not be silenced.
Biological lies must stop.
Biological lies have no place in UK legislation.

Or maybe they thought trans woman meant a female person who is trans, and therefore genuinely could get pregnant?

From reading a few of the comments, it seems that a lot of people there think the same. People seem to think transwoman means a female person who is trans, which is a transman. Part of the issue with all this language changing tbh. Of course it seems reasonable that a transman who was pregnant got maternity leave (so people think feminists are transphobic for saying they shouldn't...). It makes no sense at all to give a male person maternity leave. For what exactly?!

I used to take a very similar position Ceinwen. I used to think it was okay to say transwoman and woman. It was kind and I recognised that the majority of transgender individuals want to live their lives with their dysphoria quietly and respectfully of the gender they identify as.

But I'm afraid that has shifted over the last few years because I've seen the boundary pushing that's gone on and I know - not because I'm paranoid or bigoted - but because they've said it - that TIMs want to co-opt the word woman for themselves.

Placemarking

Pressed send too soon.

And fundamentally, if we can no longer use the word woman to mean adult human female, we no longer have the language to describe sex-based oppression. And we cannot fight sex-based oppression if we don't have the words to articulate it.

And we cannot fight sex-based oppression if we don't have the words to articulate it.

And so become complicit in our own oppression.

Having said all that, it has always been perfectly possible for any nut case with a suitable physique to disguise themselves as a woman and get past a door . Nearly 20 years ago someone did it at female open plan changing room at a sports centre in south Birmingham, UK. The police were called, there was a fuss, and the idiot was ejected. That would still be possible even after the change; behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace is gloriously flexible!

Its a wonder why we have sex segregation at all, given how easy it is to stop abuse.

Also, if calling the police is so easy, why can't TIM call them when problems arise in the male spaces?

Ceinwen2 I'm reading.

And fundamentally, if we can no longer use the word woman to mean adult human female, we no longer have the language to describe sex-based oppression. And we cannot fight sex-based oppression if we don't have the words to articulate it.

Laws are being made which conflate sex and gender, starting with the Gender Recognition Act:
Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).

This has been interpreted to mean:
As the Gender Recognition Act states that one’s acquired gender becomes one’s legal sex then there is little difference between sex and gender. Indeed sex is preceded and exceeded by gender by the terms of the Gender Recognition Act. Sex in this sense is determined by gender identity – the social role that one chooses to take.
www.socresonline.org.uk/12/1/whittle.html

So the law, according to some people, is saying that 'sex' doesn't exist but 'gender' is real. These are the people who are shaping the law. Stephen Whittle, who wrote the paragraph above, was one of the authors of the Yogyakarta Principles, elements of which were included in Resolution 2048 of the Council of Europe. These are the documents being used by the government to decide the way forward on changes to the GRA. They were mentioned in the Scottish GRA consultation, and also by Maria Miller.

This would mean that 'woman' is someone who feels like a woman, not someone with female biology, since 'gender' is reality, and 'sex' means nothing. I'm not sure that the politicians really understand this, but the people behind it certainly do.

Internationally that seem to have been the experience

What you're missing is that underpinning equality law giving access doesn't always work the same. "Gender" isn't always completely conflated with sex as is happening here. So in Ireland I understand they don't put any MTF trans in the female prison estate. There is also a much smaller number of trans people.

Also I challenge the idea that in Canada and the US there haven't been problems. There have.

Someone on Reddit mentioned 'women and cis women'. So that's the next step.

Certain TRAs really like using this phrasing. Supposedly as a joke, but it's clear to see how they regard women as subordinate to them.

In fact, everything that is happening now with the male invasion of women's sports, jails etc is all predicated on the logic inherent in 'transwoman', which linguistically groups males as a subgroup of women, who then become women's problem and duty to accommodate.

This is spot on. (My bold)

A younger employee replied: “Shouldn’t trans women qualify for maternity leave though?”

I give up with humanity. My generation is a bunch of entitled morons.

I agree with the op.

How is stating a biological fact transphobic? Transwomen are trans identifying men. So they're men.

Why is it dangerous to state that a woman is an adult human female and has the right to spaces away from men?

Funny, I've never seen anyone say that stating that a man is an adult human male is transphobic. The definition of man on Wikipedia remains adult human male. No-one calls men transphobic for talking about their penises. No-one screams for male-only spaces to be shut down.

This is a war on women and women alone.

Stating biological fact is not transphobic.

Gynophobia, which most mtf and tra have, has been proven to be much more harmful and violent.

Having said all that, it has always been perfectly possible for any nut case with a suitable physique to disguise themselves as a woman and get past a door . Nearly 20 years ago someone did it at female open plan changing room at a sports centre in south Birmingham, UK. The police were called, there was a fuss, and the idiot was ejected. That would still be possible even after the change; behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace is gloriously flexible!

If you did this now, you would be the one being cautioned for a hate crime. Good luck with that gloriously flexible law.

MrG I blinked at that one. I wonder if it was an over the top virtue signalling 'look how totally much I validate you and believe you're a woman' gesture to others. Which basically translates as 'validate me for how very cool and good I am' rather than a genuine interest or concern for the person you're using.

Tinkle

At the end of the day, does it even matter what the motivation was in saying that? Whether you genuinely believe or just want to score "woke" points, the claim is nonsense. And its effect doesn't change depending on motivation. Erasure of sex, biology, and women is the result.

Fwiw I have no doubt they said it because they believe it. I think mostly only men, beardybros, say stuff that they know is nonsense, but they want to be seen as woke (and often also shit on women). But young girls especially, I have no doubt they actually believe that. You see it on twitter all the time. And with believe I don't necessarily mean believe they can get pregnant (although for sure with the tons of misinformation out there, far too many also do think this), but rather "they identify as women, women have maternity leave, i.e. they need maternity leave".

Yes I agree that some of the female allies believe they're actually women. As do some trans identified males. Male allies, not so much. They would treat them with the obvious contempt most of them have for women if they really believed that.

Why would anyone say it’s transphobic to say the transgender people who identify as women are actually biologically male?

Your chosen gender identity doesn’t alter your biological sex. That’s not transphobic it’s reality.

Damn right. I will not be gaslighted into saying things that we all know to be untrue.

Your chosen gender identity doesn’t alter your biological sex.

People don't 'choose' their gender identity, anymore than they choose their sexual orientation.

There's no such thing as innate brain sex, except that which is dictated by chromosomes.

People don't 'choose' their gender identity, anymore than they choose their sexual orientation.
What is the definition of 'gender identity'?

Pratchet; How can you be so sure? Most people do not experience any dissonance, so they would agree with you. But some people do. There have been in the past, and my be still, instances of medications prescribed for expectant mothers that are associated statistically with greater than expected incidence of Gender Dysphoria/ transsexualism. There are many medical people, including specialists in this area , who increasingly believe that such things can indeed cause gender dysphoria and a sense of being " not of the birth sex" .