Trans Media Watch has written to parliament saying 'trans identified male' can be considered as hate speech, and that Mumsnet users referring to penises are being transphobic.

[leyat]

Trans Media Watch appears to want the term 'trans identified male', or indeed referring to them as 'men' to be understood as hate speech and deems Mumsnet 'of particular concern'. This really has to be read to be believed; here is their written submission to the Home Affairs Committee: data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/home-affairs-committee/hate-crime-and-its-violent-consequences/written/82105.pdf. It is quite the collection of lies and misrepresentations designed to completely malign women, the only good thing about it is that it is so obviously one-sided that most rational people would see that.

Worth sharing this article on how the committee has been approaching the matter, and how at least some MP's want women silenced: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Keep resisting!

I strongly suggest we push back very very hard against this language control in a meaningful way.

@Trousersdontmakemeaman

Is that the law as things stand ATM or is that what the GRA is proposing? Is somebody with a GRC legally a male or do they just have the gender of woman but the sex of male?

Do you think there could be a case that 'transmisogony' is counted as misogyny? So if you called a male a man and mentioned their stubble they could argue this was misogynistic? Could mis-gendering be treated as misogyny?A few time's I've pointed out the obvious male characteristics of a TIM and been called sexist which is Orwellian in it's doublespeak implications.

We are getting to the point when we really need to organise. The other side clearly are. We have loads of skilled people on here.

Anyone interested in a South London meet up please DM me.

The intention is to eliminate the use of the word sex, this is the intention of the Self ID package of proposals.
Read it. Show me where it says sex.

Dj : as I understand it they have the right to be treated under the law as if they were women, but aren't 'legally women' because there's no legal definition of women.

Do you think there could be a case that 'transmisogony' is counted as misogyny?

If 'woman' becomes undefined, then so does 'misogyny'.

Male means female and male, female means male and female.

This is what is happening.

The Scottish govt just produced guidelines for their new gender balanced public boards policy, which literally states that men who are undergoing the process of 'becoming female' can self ID as a woman in relation to these boards. This isn't even some kind of reference to surgery, they literally just mean a man who says he is a woman can get a woman's place on these boards. They govt has argued that sex and gender is conflated in their GRA proposals as they view the way these are defined as 'personal', however women's orgs - as hopeless as they have generally been (and even damaging) - did state in their response that this was wrong, sex and gender are not the same.

@Pratchet

Two more men happy to give away women's and girl's rights that actually don't belong to them. Why are men so happy to give away something they don't need or want?

Guests of Honour

James Palmer
Medical Director for Specialised Services, NHS England

Ben Wilson

Executive Director, Equality and Human Rights Commission

Wanderabout hate to teach granny to suck eggs but please be very careful checking posting history of anyone who DMs you. I would bet there will be some infiltration attempts so make sure they have a loooooong history.

Wish I could join you but I'm too far away.

Is somebody with a GRC legally a male or do they just have the gender of woman but the sex of male?

The GRA means that someone can change their sex in legal terms. Whittle argues that this means that we have misunderstood sex all this time, and it doesn't really exist at all except in the mind because the law says we can change it.

Changing sex for the purposes of legal recognition then, is not about changing biology or changing bodies to ‘match’ genders, but about changing how sex is legally defined.

Watch them turn on Polly Carmichael soon

I wish i had something of value to add to this debate but it is just so depressing.

I feel like I'm in a Margaret Atwood book. Is anyone else feeling like this or am I being melodramatic? Why isn't anyone saying anything?Are we all sending each other crazy with our groupthink?

I took a long time before properly making my mind up but the more I learn the more sinister everything seems. All the world is saying 'lalalalalala' everything is fine. Sometimes I think I'm being radicalised by you guys but then I engage my brain for two seconds and I think - no this is really not OK. You are the only place that has any answers for me. The 'real world' MSM just can't answer any of my questions. But everyone says it's fine! You have all the knowledge - all the geeks. So thorough, so much legal, documented stuff. That's what I have to keep going back to - the facts. Think about the way you guys treat my questions and the way I'm treated on twitter. Sorry if I'm derailing the thread here I just wanted to say this. It's all getting further and further down the rabbit hole. Is it just that I'm learning all this stuff - and the more you know the more you go 'agsdhsdhsgahahgf!!" or are things really hotting up IRL (or the media.)

I'm still basically concerned about the safety and well-being of women and children. In amongst all this heavy men's rights onslaught.

I say, men should be able to live as they wish, to dress as they wish, to have whatever interests or hobbies they wish, to present as they please. I wish them the best of luck and hope they live a happy life.

But men do not get to declare themselves to be women on their personal say-so, they shall not be allowed to break the boundaries put in place to protect women and children from male violence over decades of campaigning and progress on safeguarding

That's right Light they want to turn things back years, no decades!

We're not the crazy ones Lippy, it's them! Whittle, tras and the people speaking at that meeting just mentioned.

Anyone else from the SW. I go to London a couple of times a month if people are meeting in London.

very amused at the undercurrent in their submission of why on earth would a forum set up for mothers suddenly be needing a feminism "board".

It is when they become mothers that most women experience the most discrimination.

I am a poltergeist. I'm sure this is true, because people react to my presence, like by enjoying the food I cook or the cleaning I do, but they don't seem to acknowledge that I exist.

Once I realized I was a poltergeist, I felt better.

You will all now call me Kinderlosigkeit Poltergeist and speak about me in the third person using my full name at all times. Failure to this can only mean that you have a deep-seated fear and hatred for poltergeists and intend to hurt ufga (which is the pronoun I have invented to speak of poltergeists in the plural).

Just know that if you find this unreasonable or feel put-upon, that you are all that is wrong with the world.

"They simply want total capitulation" Yes. Just like every other male on the planet.

Wow that 'evidence' submission is a crock of shit

"On 4 February 2018 the BBC posted a short video on their website initially titled “Transgender women in women’s toilets?”. This was later amended, presumably after someone there had read the Equality Act"

Which section of the Equality Act are they claiming this is covered by?

It's just utterly deceitful.

And it goes on and on distorting stuff.

Trans identified male isn't hate speech. Not to my ears anyway.

I don't like it, though. Partly because it emphasises the part of my biology that I really want to be different and partly because I really don't want to identify as trans. I am me and I am a human being who transitioned to relieve chronic gender dysphoria. That said, I would not police anybody else's usage of the term. Besides the one sure way to make it the default terminology is to try and ban it.

Much prefer the more neutral term, transsexual person, with maybe an XY added where needed for clarification.