Trans Media Watch has written to parliament saying 'trans identified male' can be considered as hate speech, and that Mumsnet users referring to penises are being transphobic.

[leyat]

Trans Media Watch appears to want the term 'trans identified male', or indeed referring to them as 'men' to be understood as hate speech and deems Mumsnet 'of particular concern'. This really has to be read to be believed; here is their written submission to the Home Affairs Committee: data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/home-affairs-committee/hate-crime-and-its-violent-consequences/written/82105.pdf. It is quite the collection of lies and misrepresentations designed to completely malign women, the only good thing about it is that it is so obviously one-sided that most rational people would see that.

Worth sharing this article on how the committee has been approaching the matter, and how at least some MP's want women silenced: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Keep resisting!

leyat You wouldn't even need to commit a crime for it to be logged as a hate incident though. I don't know if having a hate incident logged against you would show up in a DBS check or not.

They will do anything and everything to try to silence us. This is just the start, I suspect it's going to get worse. We are all just going to have to keep going forward as best we can. They cannot win, we can't allow that there is far too much at stake.

Well whatever response we may chose to make, count me in 🙋‍♀️

Ooh! I don't know why or how that female symbol appeared but I'm very glad that it did!

This is all to stop us from talking about biological reality, because slogans like "trans women are women" are intended to obfuscate the reality of allowing people who have a rape weapon built into their bodies into intimate spaces with people who have no such rape weapon and can become pregnant.

I don't think hate incident appears on any kind of record, but not 100% sure...

And yup, true enough re a misogynistic state, when have we not :(

The police apparently record hate incidents but I can't find any references to where they are recorded and what follows from them being recorded.

I feel ill

Yup, they don't want to stop until they've either controlled us into submission or made our refusal to submit (along with our feminist arguments) invisible. The fact that Mumsnet is the largest online forum for women and is resolutely feminist in terms of Mumsnetters' approach to gender, lays bare the lies of anyone who claims that most people agree with regressive trans ideology. They will keep coming after Mumsnet, but Mumsnet's advertisers won't pull out, and Mumsnet, while they may acquiesce to some misogynistic MRA demands re pronouns/suchlike, will keep letting us get on with it because we have the right to free speech and are not doing anything wrong. TA's won't win this. They will never get what they want.

It does rather smack of a small child sticking up their hand and saying, ‘Miss, Miss, Suzie said a rude word to Johnny’.

I just read Stephen Whittles paper which someone linked to and it's made me feel completely Ill it's so full of shit.

people who have a rape weapon built into their bodies

Analogy: If I have a gun handcuffed to my wrist, others will understandably fear that I might shoot them. Whether I am happy about the gun being there is irrelevant to how others will perceive me based on its presence.

I think we're already too far down the rabbit hole on this...any MPs how see this for what it is may be too scared to go against the flow...or rather the tidal wave.

This is what the government unleashed on women

8.8 The Gender Recognition Act enables legal �sex changes� - what legally constitutes male and female has changed. We share Sandland�s (2005) view that as we can now have men with vaginas and women with penises, the act does undermine the binary of two morphologically distinct sexes. We also agree that this poses no challenge to the idea that there are legally only two sexes (Sandland, 2005; Cowan 2005). However, what it means to be legally recognised as a man or a woman has now been redefined as it is not based on the body or biology. Thus, the Gender Recognition Act may not undermine the threat that trans people pose to the binary system of sex/gender (Sandland 2005; Cowan 2005). There are still only two legal sexes to choose from, but Gender Recognition Certificates will not be forcibly issued to all trans people � regardless of where they may place themselves on the gender spectrum; nor will all trans people wish to apply for one. Rather, the Gender Recognition Act offers those transsexual people who do identify as men or women, the right to be legally recognised as such even if one is a woman with a penis or a man with a vagina. The privileges afforded by legal recognition and gendered belonging should never be underestimated (Prosser 1998) and the desire for these does not make gender/sexual dissidents �apolitical and acquiescent� (Morland 2007: 13). Changing sex for the purposes of legal recognition then, is not about changing biology or changing bodies to �match� genders, but about changing how sex is legally defined. In that sense �having a sex change� has a different meaning with new political consequences and challenges.

...I'm pretty sure hate incidents cannot be recorded in any way that anyone could ever access, for eg even a caution can only happen in the case of an offence, i.e. when someone admits an offence so are cautioned (which is different to questioning someone under caution).

Changing sex for the purposes of legal recognition then, is not about changing biology or changing bodies to �match� genders, but about changing how sex is legally defined. In that sense �having a sex change� has a different meaning with new political consequences and challenges.

YES THERE ARE POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES AND NOW IS THE TIME YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM

the test will be if any MPs actually take this shit seriously

I don't know the chronology but if this paper was submitted before Stephen Doughty MP's questions to newspaper editors, then perhaps yes?

Where are the women MPs in all of this? Why aren't they standing up for women?

Im just here to say im not going anywhere. They wont silence me. I will ALWAYS resist! Womens rights are my rights and the rights of every female. Men can fuck off!

Penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis

Hatespeak forsooth

inlove

Seeing your username say that was one of the funniest things that’s happened to me in ages

Think they are either blinded to it by the rhetoric, or afraid that their already tenuous hold on political life might be taken away.

Those who see this for what it is need to join together and speak up. I hope someone will.

Once again, this boils down to conflict of interests whereby women want to have separate terms that denote categorisation by sex and gender identity and trans people want to have terms that combine them.

I do find myself frustrated by intolerance expressed with regard to people having these interests. Women should be free to express why they want what they want and trans people should be free to express why they want what they want. We really should be able to have discussions about differing/ competing interests without it becoming a slanging match.

I think trans advocates become fearful and then angry (and sometimes aggressive) because they know that women's requests are likely to be considered to be reasonable if they get to be properly heard. I think women become frustrated and angry because their voices are often not heard because they are dismissed as being 'anti-trans' in advance of being fully expressed.

We need to continue to work confidently and persistently IRL to ensure women's voices are heard. Social media and Mumsnet is great for awareness raising but it doesn't seem to be hitting the spot in terms of getting heard by the people who can influence the outcome of the consultation, once if takes place. I am confident that the many persuasive activities that are going on IRL will make headway.

The delay in the consultation about the GRA is in our favour because it has given us a lot more time to get organised and beaver away. I think trans activists are likely to become more and more aggressive in trying to stop women's voices being heard, but the cat is now out of the bag and we are being heard so we need to keep on keeping on and we will be heard!

I'm heartened to see that Nottinghamshire Police are treating misogyny as a hate crime. Question is, could an 11yo trans girl masturbating in the school showers in front of other girls be treated as an act of misogyny? It might be if the perp was a boy.

mobile.twitter.com/TracyXXs/status/975379101761486848

I just read Stephen Whittles paper which someone linked to and it's made me feel completely Ill it's so full of shit.

Yep, that paper peak Peak PEAKED me. I am not generally prone to conspiracy theories, but the utter prescience of Orwell's 1984 became stark after reading that Whittle paper. Chilling.