Danielle Muscato

[KittyMcKitty]

DM has posted this - apparently the best way to “beat terfs” is to give DM money - seriously, what is their logic?!?

I'd also add, if being a woman is as easy as putting on a dress and adopting a female name, then why do M2F transsexuals feel the need to have facial feminisation surgery. My understanding is this isn't cosmetic surgery eg lip-fillers, botox, but procedures designed to make their physical appearance/bone structures more feminine.

This to me is one of the flaws of the nonbinary, gender fluid identities - it's all very well dressing androgynously or like the opposite sex but there are still underlying physical traits eg height, body shape, skin, bone structure that identify you as male or female

Danielle posted a few months ago that she can't take much hormones because of underlying health conditions. SHe said that she just takes a token amount to keep the terfs quiet...

Apparently not having a beard makes one female now...

I think we can all agree that looking 'pretty' should not be a prerequisite to womanhood?

Being female is the only prerequisite to womanhood.

why do M2F transsexuals feel the need to have facial feminisation surgery

Some do, many don't.
Many say we can't actually tell just by looking who is a TIM or who is a woman...

Can we please stop focussing on what some transwomen (esp. Danielle) look like?

What about at least making some effort to look feminine and minimise male/masculine physical traits?

I'm female and I don't do this

I'm as gender critical as they come, but this is a pretty unpleasant thread that seem to be pretty much taking the piss out of an individual.

What? A bloke who tells women to suck his dick if they don't think he's a woman? All I've done is point out that his 'transition' consisted of .. nothing. We are highlighting the this is the end game of self id. Abstracts don't work: DM put himself out there as an example. Fine, he can be the example. There he is. That is self ID. Don't like it? Don't shoot the messenger. Complain about self ID.

I don’t think Danielle gives a damn about what ‘the TERFs’ think or say or do. I also think Danielle knows full well that a lot of those well-behaved liberal feminists aren’t comfortable with the “suck my dick” or “tell me your euphemisms for masturbation please, I’m asexual but I just really like language!” or taking a place in a women’s refuge or all of that stuff either, and rather enjoys seeing them squirm about it and then loudly cheer anyway.

DM's appearance is not very feminine, but that doesn't bother me. As far as I'm concerned, anybody can dress how they like. Gender stereotypes are toxic, and we'd all be better off without them. What does bother me is that DM has decided that he is female and always was, and is prepared to be verbally aggressive to anyone who doesn't accept this.

Others (of both sexes) are making similar declarations and lots of people including HCPs, teachers and lawmakers are accepting this self-ID and changing the law and all sorts of other things accordingly. The problems this causes are being swept under the carpet and those of us who can see the potential difficulties are being labelled as bigots for raising them, and even threatened with legal action for stating the obvious (e.g. ThePosieParker).

With any other fixed delusion psychiatric treatment would be suggested. If DM had an eating disorder or was hearing voices from God or had decided his right leg was not really his, there would be no question that he was unwell. But because he is stating that he is really a she he gets treated as entirely rational.

I don't think this is doing him any favours.

Oh no I don't care what he wears, he can knock himself out with orange shoes and stubble. I care that he thinks saying some words turns him into a woman.

Pratchet
My point is that Danielle Muscato isn't self ID'd: she is diagnosed dysphoric. I don't believe that she is female, but I will address her as such as long as it is diagnosed and required. I might be very uncomfortable about where all this is headed, but the personal attacks on her appearance are unacceptable: make us look like bigots and actually dilute the force of our concerns/arguments against self-ID. Her comments regarding violence etc are fair game. I'm certainly no fan. But 'doesn't look feminine enough' is a terrible basis for any feminist argument.

My impression is that Muscato is one of those TRAs who think 'gender' is literally all in the mind. The body is absolutely irrelevant. That makes him different from old-style transsexuals, the ones dismissed as truscum. It's also dangerous and regressive thinking because it links being male or female entirely with attitudes and behavioural stereotypes. It's reinforcing gender.

Muscato is a bullshitter.

It's not about not looking feminine, I totally agree, dreadful argument! even when you look like Paris Lees you havent changed sex. Being diagnosed dysphoric is little more than a doctor affirming your self id. Dysphoria doesn't change your sex. I'll never call a man 'she'.

Danielle posted a few months ago that she can't take much hormones because of underlying health conditions. SHe said that she just takes a token amount to keep the terfs quiet...

Wow, did DM really say that? So analysing the above, DM says they cannot take hormones due to a medical condition, but takes a 'token amount' to shut up the terfs? Frankly, the last part sounds like a lie. But I gather if DM does, against medical advice, it will somehow get twisted about that WE caused DM harm!

The 'attacks' on DM's appearance is largely because DM's only 'transition' was to change name. And call themselves a woman. It's all DM's say-so, it is quite obvious DM still goes out of the house dressed as they always were.

Frankly, the situation is so ludicrous. DM came from the skeptic crowd. I have been waiting for DM to pull the ultimate 'gotcha' on the TRAs, but that has not happened yet.

I honestly have a lot of sympathy with someone diagnosed with genuine gender dysphoria. It must be awful to believe you were born as the wrong sex.

My sympathy runs out when they say
"Some women have penises If you're bothered by this suck my dick" and sends out dick pics.

It is deeply offensive to all women that this person demands to be called "she" and says they are a woman. It is the biggest insult to women possible.

They don't deserve respect. Or money.

It's not what DM looks like now I object to. It's what they say.
They do seem to be making a bit more of an effort with their appearance now, had a shave, bit of eyeliner, more girly glasses and a hat, fair enough.

But no, I don't think they are a woman and no I won't be "sucking his dick"

Afternoon, everyone. Just popping by with a reminder that discussing these issues is fine but we will have to delete any posts that break talk guidelines.

We do think it's possible to refer to someone by their preferred pronouns, regardless of what you think about that, but if that's tricky, you can always use initials or their name instead. We also think that comments about someone's physical appearance that sound a bit aggressive or belittling aren't very helpful, so we will delete those.

We would like to leave the thread up if at all possible, so we'd appreciate your cooperation. If it becomes a bit of a pile-on we will have to zap the whole thing.

Thanks.

Nope, absolutely not possible to refer to DM by DM's preferred pronouns. DM is a trolly git and abusive fucker (threatening oral rape on International Women's Day) and it'll be a cold day in hell before I use DM's preferred pronouns. We all have our lines in the sand, and this is one of mine.

I also refuse to use preferred pronouns.

DM does not have sex dysphoria. Likes DM's dick enough to talk about it quite happily. @mumsnet of course it's possible to use preferred pronouns. Also possible to use the correct pronouns. You have the right to police one of them. You have chosen the anti-women option.

Still, you're hamstrung. No bloke gets a 'she' out of me.

It would be DM for me too - especially now that I've got past my initial misunderstanding and realise people aren't talking about their Dear Mother

I won't be using preferred pronouns unless paid to.

Can we please stop focussing on what some transwomen (esp. Danielle) look like? I think we can all agree that looking 'pretty' should not be a prerequisite to womanhood? In fact isn't half the problem that some men claim to be transwomen because they like 'pretty things' and making themselves look 'pretty'.

One of the myths peddled by TRAs is that most trans identified males pass as women and that we've been sharing private spaces with them for years and just didn't know it. I think there are lots of people who think it doesn't matter much whether trans identified males are in women's spaces because they pass as women, are attracted to men and are so dysphoric that they would never want to talk about let alone use their penis. They say women are being hysterical to suggest that a bearded man might say he is a woman without taking any steps to transition.

It's important to talk about DM because DM was claiming to be a woman even when DM sported a full beard. DM took a place in a woman's refuge. DM told women to suck DM's dick.

We do all agree that being pretty is not a prerequisite to being a woman. Being female is though and being asked to confirm DH is a woman is the highest order of the Emperor's new clothes. Women are entitled to point this out.

DM came from the skeptic crowd.

Yes, interesting that. It is a bit odd just how embracing the skeptic community is of gender identity ideology. Homeopathy? Rubbish! Astrology? Rubbish! Gendered souls? Sounds totally reasonable! But that’s also a community that has had some issues with women and feminism over the years, so maybe less surprising.

I have read a comment from DM before the Danielle days, in role as PR person for American Atheists, saying something like “I wanted to work for American Atheists because they were one of the first atheist orgs to take harassment seriously after Elevatorgate.” Nice sentiment. Although am unclear on how posting “suck my dick” on International Women’s Day goes with that, exactly.