MNHQ Deletion Policy

[TheUterati]

Earlier today the Trans Park Run thread was deleted in its entirety because SOME posts alleging cheating were deemed to be 'not in the spirit' of MN.

We have a thread about that running.

I have just been deleted on the Heather Peto thread for posting this:

"Bless..."

A post intended to be mildly dismissive.

That was deleted for breaking talk guidelines.

Give me a fucking break MNHQ.

"Bless..." gets a deletion!??!?!

TRA really have got you on a short chain, haven't they?

The difference in FWR is not that we are a nest of nasty vipers, it's that we are discussing and analysing things through a feminist prism, which necessarily includes analysis of the class called Man and the class called Woman. Where individuals are discussed, their trans status is relevant, because they are taking away spaces reserved for women, or they are displaying male aggression / entitlement / attitude and part of feminist analysis is to recognise and name that behaviour.

Exactly.

Monsoon
"I'd be interested to know whether any advertisers have in fact withdrawn their business from Mumsnet as a result of the allegations of transphobia - anyone know?"

I don't know but I doubt it. I also think it would be a supremely stupid decision given that most women are responsible for the bulk of the household expenditure. I'd certainly boycott any firm that tried to shut women up. It would not be good publicity.

Monsoonmama, if MN are under such pressure, what I don't get is why they are not creating an enormous amount of noise about it? I mean, trying to destroy a business because you do not agree with their target audience? So if you don't like meat, you will shutdown Sainsbury's or Tesco's?
Trying to comply to the TRA's ever moving goalsposts is going to kill you anyway, at least go down with a fight.

I rarely post as am very un-articulate and lots of people say things much better than I ever could. But it would be heart-rending to lose the articulate, knowledgeable, passionate posters from here. I learn such a lot from you all. Thank you! Please don't leave us behind if you do go!

We'll lose some political punch if we escape to Reddit...

Trying to comply to the TRA's ever moving goalsposts is going to kill you anyway, at least go down with a fight.

^ what sanluca said

We'll lose some political punch if we escape to Reddit...

Becoming indistinguishable from Netmums

I've read most of the thread but not all - but I'm really concerned that posts are being deleted for so-called 'misgendering' (though surely doing the opposite goes against biological reality so why is one right and one wrong?)

As far as misgendering goes, honestly, I am constantly calling my children the wrong names and I even call DH the wrong name sometimes - being expected to use English in a way that cuts across all you've learnt and years of experience really hard and it IS gaslighting. 'he' and 'she' are not swearwords. They are neutral terms (that incidentally some non native English speakers CONSTANTLY get wrong ). Moderation deleting posts for misgendering is definitely going too far.

ineedacup

I agree to a certain extent

Deliberate misgendering is one thing

Having an entire post deleted when you have been obviously really careful about using the correct pronouns and just accidentally slipped up is quite another

Or when its an honest typo

I wonder if the gameshow 'Catchphrase' has updated rules because surely this suggestion can no longer stand.

Misgendering, my aunt fanny

We aren't the ones misgendering

Glad you all feel you can escape. I see it as an utterly pointless retreat into nothingness.

FYI the now deleted thread about the Day For Freedom protest is now doing the rounds on twitter. Just a screenshot of the first two posts, mind. The ones that could lead people to think mumsnet are in support of white nationalists.

@TruScum after what you said earlier who you prefer us on here to refer to you as male or female? My instinct is always to respectfully refer to someone as they present, provided they are respectful back (and I usually carry on doing so if they aren't ). In discussions such as this I refer to the class rather than the individual so would use make for trans women and female for transmen.

I can't find the exact quote but you said something about it maybe being a mistake to allow people to call you she. I am happy to go with whichever you prefer, just let me know.

Sorry that was very garbled, hope you get where I am going.

Hi Red. Sorry you've had a filthy time of it. This is temporary.

twitter.com/christineburns/status/991293263566000128?s=19

(Who is Christine Burns btw?)

"FYI the now deleted thread about the Day For Freedom protest is now doing the rounds on twitter. Just a screenshot of the first two posts, mind. The ones that could lead people to think mumsnet are in support of white nationalists."

Deleting it was an own-goal. Troll starts thread to provoke screenshot. Deluded right-winger takes bait. Then loads of other posters join to say "not in our names." Thread is deleted. TRAs now control the narrative because all they show in a screen grab is the first two posts.

This is going to happen a lot. There was at least one other thread this morning started with the express intention of generating screenshots, IMO. Fortunately, people twigged immediately and started responding with anodyne "maybe this would be better in Style and Beauty" posts.

Exactly @FermatsTheorem

Glad you all feel you can escape. I see it as an utterly pointless retreat into nothingness

Its not an escape, I'm sorry. You sound so down Red I just want to give you a hug and some cake. Can we help at all?

@Fermat - yup.

And as has already been observesd a thread with more holes than swiss cheese also provides ammunition for SS and Twitter, along the lines of, that vile TheUterati - see how many posts needed to be deleted? That can be manipulated - the evidence that all I did was state biological truth and say 'bless...' is now gone. They can make up whatever the hell they like. That is part of the plan and MN are enabling this.

Important points FermatsTheorem

Deliberate misgendering is one thing but who gets to decide when it's deliberate? You're allowing a minority to decide which people (women mostly on here) are allowed to speak. If that minority has an agenda then one side of a debate is silenced. I don't think that's ok when pronouns are neutral terms. I have friends from other countries who "misgender" me and my kids. It's not offensive.

I agree that there are times I'd use the preferred pronouns to be polite (e.g would be happy to call Miranda Yardley and truscum whatever they'd like and I'd do my honest best, though I can't promise not to randomly call them one of the dcs names too as do that a lot...) but if I don't it shouldn't alter my right to free speech. If you see someone as a man it's hard not to use 'he'. It's instinctive (Miranda Hart makes jokes about this as people sometimes think she's a man because of her height) What happened in the speaker's corner assault court case is very worrying.

Red

In the context of 'trans', 'deliberate misgendering' is a nonsense.

I will deliberately refer to people, male or female, with words that correctly denote their sex. That is 'being deliberately accurate' not 'deliberately misgendering'. It has got nothing to do with gender for a start - male, female, he, she, etc are to do with sex not gender.

The only instance of misgendering I can thing of is if I say:

Le chaise, instead of la chaise

And it is deliberate if I know that chaise takes the feminine.

And it is designed to humiliate and cause hurt if I am on some Francophobic mission and have decided that deliberately misgendering French is the way to go. Weird, and slightly unhinged, but not impossible.

I will deliberately refer to people, male or female, with words that correctly denote their sex. That is 'being deliberately accurate' not 'deliberately misgendering'.

Hear! hear!