Nearly every mass killer is a man. Why aren’t we talking about that?

[CircleSquareCircleSquare]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/26/mass-killer-toronto-attack-man-men?

“After the Toronto attack, there should be a debate about toxic masculinity, and the issues of identity and rage that turn so many men towards violence”

I don’t dare to read the comments.

So if men built society, and men are violent therefore society is bad? Is that about the thrust of it?

Missed it by a mile.

Surely that's the whole point though? Opposing opinions?

That says everything about who men like this come to Feminist forums.

Why, not who. Argh!

Its not an insult, Its an accurate representation.

Don't you understand that it is different when abusive men do it? He has been explaining and explaining how "He's not hurting you; you're hurting him by saying he's hurting you."

The Bewilderness,

There are three separate discussions here.

Firstly, the impact of men's violence on women. Here, I will always respectfully listen to women.

Why are men violent? This can be addressed by both sexes (as can everything really) but maybe men have a little more insight due to their lived experience..

What to do about it and whether what we do is worth the costs (as whatever we do will have some costs) Again, both men and women should have equal input. We live in society together.

I am respectful of the fact that this is a feminist forum and I am careful not to post too much. However, it is also part of a parenting site where the moderators say it is discussions about feminism, so men are also welcome to post. As it appears in 'active conversations' what is discussed here will have influence well beyond the FWR subforum.

If it were decided by MN that this should be a woman only space, I (for one) would not post here again (I never name change so am unlikely to suddenly do so).

I have posted my views on this subject respectfully and certainly never petulantly. I have had very little response to my actual views and lots of picking apart of where my views are coming from and why.

Is this discussion really about finding the reason why and looking for realistic ways to tackle it?

Surely men, not women, need to lead in talking about male violence.

I would class myself as non violent. However, I enjoy violence in controlled environments.

I play Rugby and love it. It gives me a massive buzz, hitting someone hard but within the laws of game. The adrenaline rush is huge.

Men enjoy violence. The best way to reduce it is to channel it into other areas, sport, work, the army etc...

Some of the most violent men I know joined the army. They've done really well, and changed as people now. However, when they first came back from tours
of Afghanistan, they would tell stories of killing people. They loved it.

It's an issue that is never going away unfortunately.

Some of the most violent men I know joined the army. They've done really well, and changed as people now. However, when they first came back from tours
of Afghanistan, they would tell stories of killing people. They loved it

That’s a sweeping generalisation if ever I heard one. I’ve never, and I mean never heard any squaddie talking about loving killing. In fact the two closest to me (DP and BIL) who have seen the theatre of war first hand have struggled with what they saw and did ever since.

Some struggle with war, some are unaffected and some enjoy it. I dont think it's a controversial opinion.

They were young and it may have been youthful bravdo, but they had gruesome stories and told them with relish.

Like I said, different people now.

If you look at some of the stuff wikileaks produced, with American apache helicopter missions. They are laughing and joking when at killing people.

Some struggle with war, some are unaffected and some enjoy it

That’s not what you said. You unequivocally stated that “men enjoy violence” as if it’s the cause or indeed an excuse. It is neither, because it is not true.

And I’d also argue that those who do enjoy violence shouldn’t be anywhere near the armed forces!

So some men are violence because they enjoy it. If this enjoyment is channelled then it doesn't harm women. What makes them enjoy violence in the first place? Is that inbuilt in some men, or learnt? How could we stop this from happening?