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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Day of protest in Canada

102 replies

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 22/04/2018 02:50

Monday 23rd April 11am PST
7pm Uk time

twitter.com/JennSmith64/status/987857664762724352

We need brave women REFUSING to be silenced. TRUTH IS NOT HATE! IGNORANCE IS NOT STRENGTH!
We are that woman.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 25/04/2018 21:06

That was exactly my point earlier.

ItLooksABitOff · 25/04/2018 21:07

OK?

ItLooksABitOff · 25/04/2018 21:08

I mean, we can decolonize too. Why do we have to be divided into 2 genders?

thebewilderness · 25/04/2018 21:10

Gender is the social structure of the dominance/submission paradigm designed to limit women's human activities.
Claiming that sex and gender are the same thing is patently absurd.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 25/04/2018 21:11

it's not a competition MrsTerry. We can care for both

You literally started the competition!

Juells · 25/04/2018 21:12

...and bloody annoying

UpstartCrow · 25/04/2018 21:12

Sexes. We are categorised into 2 sexes.
Because men dont have periods or babies, and women dont rape and kill men at the same rate that men do.

Sort out the problem of male violence against women and then the 'divide' will mostly go away, unless its a choice for privacy.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 25/04/2018 21:13

Yep

2 sexes

thebewilderness · 25/04/2018 21:14

ItLooksABitOff Wed 25-Apr-18 20:58:20And yes, I can point you to the exact Blackfoot person who told me about the 2S thing. He lives in Alberta, Canada. I can DM you his twitter name and you can see for yourself. And that's just one.

This is the logical fallacy called appeal to authority.
I think I have a bingo.

MrsTerryPratchett · 25/04/2018 21:18

There is sex

And there is gender

Confusing the two is an issue.

I think gender is made up, oppressive bullshit so have as many as you like of those or none.

Sex is biological fact which has been used to oppress women in almost every time and place. Including a lot of First Nations BTW. Some were matriarchal and matrilineal and some weren't.

ItLooksABitOff · 27/04/2018 19:04

so, the bewilderness, you couldn't name the so called first nations people who allegedly don't agree with the current trans issues. You can't name the communities they claim to represent. In other words, you're full of it.

MrsT that's just not true. Not according to the many indigenous people I follow, read etc. Suggesting this shows your inability to think outside of your own western cultural paradigm. I'll go by what they say rather than you, thanks.

This is one of the issues with that dick Jordan Peterson. He's just another settler in a long line of white male settlers in Canada who sees things through his own particular cultural lens. He also made a false claim about being a member of an indigenous Nation. This is another typical tactic of many settlers (joseph boyden, grey owl, etc).

ItLooksABitOff · 27/04/2018 19:05

www.ualberta.ca/admissions-programs/online-courses/indigenous-canada

I highly recommend the above course.

ItLooksABitOff · 27/04/2018 19:08

news.gov.bc.ca/factsheets/sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-sogi-in-schools

•In the past 12 months, lesbian, gay and bisexual youth were seven times more likely than heterosexual youth to attempt suicide (28% vs. 4%).

•1% of B.C. high school students identify as transgender and 5% of Aboriginal students identify as two-Spirit.

Juells · 27/04/2018 19:09

Thread successfully derailed into discussion about something or other that nobody gives a crap about 😂

ItLooksABitOff · 27/04/2018 19:13

www.coursera.org/learn/indigenous-canada/lecture/ckZ0u/indigenous-concepts-of-gender

Commonly, sex is seen as a binary consisting of male and female; but today, scientists recognize that gender and sex are not always so easily categorized, a fact that many Indigenous peoples have always understood.

This Course

Video Transcript

University of Alberta

Dr. Tracy Bear

Dr. Paul Gareau

0:00
[MUSIC] A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground. Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons.

0:34

Powerful assurances and statements, such as the previous quote, acknowledge and recognize that Indigenous women remain the backbone of our communities.

0:44
This lesson explores the resilience and vitality of Indigenous women, girls, and genderful folks and celebrates the influential roles and responsibility shared with Indigenous men as nation builders. However, as much as this lesson seeks to examine the strength of Indigenous women, we must first take into consideration why there is an entire lesson devoted to this topic at all.

1:11
Indigenous women currently live in an appalling state of extreme marginalization, and oppressive state policies such as the Indian Act, genocidal tactics like the residential schools, and sexist policies have all worked to police and shape attitudes surrounding Indigenous women, girls, and genderful folk.

1:32
Including the examination of colonial history as it applies to Indigenous women does not dishonour the resiliency and strength that they represent today,

1:43
but it is required in order to return to our rightful position and equal status in the world today as healers, hunters, intellectuals, nurturers, and leaders.

1:56
This lesson begins with Indigenous concepts of gender and explores some of the understandings of gender and sexuality across a range of Indigenous cultures, which leads into a discussion about the ways that Indigenous women traditionally held critical roles and responsibilities within their communities.

2:17
One of the key messages we're trying to get across in this lesson is how colonization is a gendered project.

2:25
We outline the ways that the Indian Act discriminated against women and discuss the issue of violence against Indigenous women. We will also talk about the ways Indigenous women in Canada have fought to defend their rights.

2:40
We'll end this lesson with the discussion about Indigenous feminism.

2:46
We will begin by talking about the concepts of gender and sex. Sex as a concept is used to refer to the kinds of biological differences that exist in terms of genetic makeup, anatomy, hormones, and physical characteristics.

3:04
Commonly, sex is seen as a binary consisting of male and female; but today, scientists recognize that gender and sex are not always so easily categorized, a fact that many Indigenous peoples have always understood.

3:20
The concept of gender is used to describe the culturally constructed categories that reflect ideas about a person's role, traits, and position within society, depending upon how they present themselves as male, female, or another category.

3:36
The concept of gender is related to the concept of sex, but they definitely are not the same.

3:43
Social scientists often talk about gender as a spectrum, with male and masculinity on one end, and female and femininity on the other.

3:53
An individual's gender identity is how much they see themselves as either male or female, or somewhere in between.

4:01
Some cultures view gender as being limited to either male or female, but in other cultures, gender is seen as much more fluid.

4:11
Indigenous cultures across North America have different definitions and expressions of gender than is found in Western cultures.

4:20
Gender variance is a concept used to refer to the cultural construction of multiple genders.

4:27
Multiple genders and a wide variance of gender roles existed in many tribal societies and communities.

Through their participation in community and women's councils, Indigenous women held a high degree of political power when it came to management of land, the nomination of chiefs, and tribal governance.

6:32
Women elders chose the best suitable individual for tribal leaders and made important decisions that benefited the well-being and livelihood of the whole community.

Children are raised in flexible ways that allow them to discover their gender identity. For instance, a child may have physically male traits and later take up a woman’s role after they've exhibited they preferred and must be fitting gender identity.

thebewilderness · 27/04/2018 19:14

so, the bewilderness, you couldn't name the so called first nations people who allegedly don't agree with the current trans issues. You can't name the communities they claim to represent. In other words, you're full of it.

Do you seriously not get that we see you?

ItLooksABitOff · 27/04/2018 19:15

yeah, it's so inconvenient when someone comes in with another point of view, eh? darn it. it's so much easier when it's all just black and white.

ItLooksABitOff · 27/04/2018 19:16

I see you too, settler.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 27/04/2018 19:24

Ah. Cultural relativism.

We love a bit of cultural relativism. It's like a beautiful left wing baseball bat you can legitimately twat WAG with.

Juells · 27/04/2018 19:28

yeah, it's so inconvenient when someone comes in with another point of view, eh? darn it. it's so much easier when it's all just black and white

This thread is about women's and girls' rights. Nobody is interested in the beliefs of people who have no relevance to us.

Juells · 27/04/2018 19:33

Sweet suffering Jesus I was foolish enough to glance at that load of cut-and-paste.

This lesson explores the resilience and vitality of Indigenous women, girls, and genderful folks

genderful 😐

thebewilderness · 27/04/2018 19:44

People going for the ad hom and accusing you of can't when you won't engage with them is a tell. Not to the level of a red flag in my opinion unless it is connected to a series of logical fallacies and cap it with the claim that they are offering a "different perspective".
The term "different perspective" has also become a tell.
12th rule of misogyny: Women's ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/04/2018 21:13

It's alright. I'll stick with the hundreds of First Nations people I work with in an average year. And the events, courses and educational experiences offered to me by the Aboriginal people I am privileged to know. And the many Aboriginal women and their children I've housed in my home.

Do I win Right On Top Trumps?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 27/04/2018 21:21

DoI win Right On Top Trumps?

Yup. A pair of SNL 'Woke' jeans is winging it's way to you. Grin

ReluctantCamper · 27/04/2018 21:41

scientists recognize that gender and sex are not always so easily categorized

That will be a nope.

please link to the reputable paper that states that sex is not easily categorised. Except in the case of intersex people, sex is very easily categorised.

Gender is your personality, don't care about categorising that.