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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Marks & Spencer protest

371 replies

invisibleoldwoman · 18/04/2018 14:39

Here is an email sent to M&S today.

"I needed new bras. Normally I go to one of your stores, get fitted, get advice and buy several. Have a look around generally and maybe coffee or lunch in the cafe. Now, I cannot deal with the stress of worrying about whether I will have to deal with a male fitter, or men in the changing rooms. So I have bought my bras somewhere I don't have to deal with this. I have decided not to use your online shop as I do not wish to support a company that makes it impossible for me to feel comfortable visiting a changing room or asking for a personal service."

I have decided to send this sort of feedback everytime I fail to buy something somewhere where they have gone along with the self-id policy.

OP posts:
SusanBunch · 19/04/2018 16:23

But is this protest by the OP based on a new policy by M&S or is it still back to that thread about a suspected trans bra fitter?

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 16:30

Trans'women' are female-identified men.

MadBadDaddy · 19/04/2018 16:38

@Pratchet ...some of whom need bras.

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 16:49

Well they can campaign for more female-identified bra fitters and try them on in the gents change room.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 19/04/2018 16:56

Wasnt just talking about womans dress stores

And again...even in purely womens stores i have never seen a male assistant at the changing rooms

Again happy to say it occurs as I certainly haven't been into every shop in the country (i dont care what dh may be telling you...its a fib Grin)

But so

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/04/2018 17:22

Men don't have breasts, MadBadDaddy, so I'm not sure what your somewhat belaboured point actually is?

ijustwannadance · 19/04/2018 17:23

Well they can campaign for more female-identified bra fitters and try them on in the gents change room.

They won't though will they, because they will say being fitted by another tran woman would be "triggering".

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 17:30


are they the only people in the whole world allowed to be triggered

MadBadDaddy · 19/04/2018 17:36

@Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar The ones that have breasts do. I thought it a fair point, but 'pols for being clunky making it.

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 17:41

Still don't need to be in the women's change

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/04/2018 17:42

The ones that have breasts are not men, they are transmen. Why should thousands of women be made to feel uncomfortable to ensure the pc comfort of the vanishingly tiny percentage of people who would actually welcome this?
If a self styled man needs to wear a bra, "he" can join the rest of the people with breasts (women) and will pass completely unremarked in doing so.

MadBadDaddy · 19/04/2018 17:43

@Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar ...and reading back, I didn't actually say that men had breasts, because I'm a smartarse like that.

Jojoanna · 19/04/2018 17:43

Gap have unisex changing rooms with only thin curtains in the town I shop. Not sure I would use them

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/04/2018 17:48

Well you did say "they're not all women", Daddy, but whatever.

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 17:48

I think some men do have breasts die to hormones tho

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/04/2018 17:55

Do they seriously wear bras?!

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 17:56

Yes and go on about it as well, quite often

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/04/2018 17:57


MadBadDaddy · 19/04/2018 17:57

@Pratchet - Regular doses of oestrogen will definitely do that over time

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 18:14

Point being, they are men's breasts that belong in the men's change

MsMcWoodle · 19/04/2018 18:17

Exactly- along with their male penis.

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 18:17

Even if it's inverted

daisychain01 · 19/04/2018 18:34

What about women who just aren't comfortable being measured for a bra by someone who is male?

Since when has it been mandatory for women to be measured for a bra by anyone, male or female. If they don't have to subject themselves to anything they don't want to just to buy some underwear.

Stop pretending that there is any protection or gatekeeping with self ID. There isnt, its the whole point. It is going to be misused

Dear me, I'm not pretending , I clearly said that we don't know what the M&S policy is. That's being pragmatic. I just don't believe M&S as a huge British household name will go all-out to assign self ID employees onto the bra-fitting team in stores. They have HR people looking at this and I bet you it's being very carefully managed. It's feasible for them to continue being an Equal Opportunities employer, and allocating their staff appropriately round their stores without making daft decisions that could cause massive reputational harm if they haven't managed it carefully.

I don't work in Marks, I don't have a vested interest but it's just common sense.

Pratchet · 19/04/2018 18:45

I bet it isn't. History shows policies being made with advice from transadvocate groups.

MadBadDaddy · 19/04/2018 18:51

Who would ever have thought that the cutting-edge of 'reasonable compromise' would run through the bra department at M&S?

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