Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

[ALittleBitOfButter]

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

Fantastic isn't it?

I second 'fantastic'!

Female:

Middle English: from Old French femelle, from Latin femella, diminutive of femina ‘a woman’. The change in the ending was due to association with male, but the words male and female are not linked etymologically.

Jayceedove I do not prevent anyone using terms like he and male on here with me. It was hard at first because nobody has done that for 45 years - so by the time the surprise wore off I understood why you were doing it and it just seemed odd not nasty.

Pratchet, I personally am fine with whatever you say or do as I have made clear.

No it's not fine Jaycee. It's not fine to be bullied and harassed into accepting verbal abuse. It is not fine to be coerced into accepting hateful speech.

And it is not fine to be victimised into complying with a verbal abuser misgendering you.

I get that you want to be accepted here. But you don't have to jeopardise your own sanity and principles on the alter of ignorance to try and gain respect. You don't have to appease people here and be ultra nice in order to get some extra validation.

And I say ignorance because it is. Repeatedly calling you he when you have made it known that you are a woman and go by she, is ignorant. Society has in the main already decided that. And that society includes women. Yes normal, free thinking women who make their own decisions!

...when objecting to your post. Likely some still will

You mean like the law?

It is not verbal abuse or hateful speech to notice a person's sex and refer to them that way. It has been normal probably as long as we have been speaking.

What planet are you on that this is classed as verbal abuse? I wish my life had been as privileged as yours.

Meanwhile woen who note sex are being threatened with kerb stomping and told to shut up or they'll be reported to the police.

But in bizarro world saying "he" is abuse.

Until I heard IW on CBB talk about Daleks I had no idea the sex which shall not be named viewed the plunger as an erect phallus.
I do not thank them for this information.

thebewilderness Gee I wonder why women would think their safety and dignity is more important than what their gran writes on a Bday card? What do women want? It's a mystery.

Exactly. So you have also answered the original observation from OvaHere, which was: Funnily nobody seems to give a crap about that sort of misgendering

It is because it is a lower priority as you say. Which is the same point I was making.

You are right windows, it is femina = "she who suckles". I was misdirected by unreliable sources and will correct the error of my ways immediately.
Thanks.

@Supematchgame

We don't refer to Jaycee as he, we love Jaycee here, she's a good friend, and no one approves of you speaking to her like that here. You are the one bullying there mate. You.

No worries Wilderness. What gets my goat is that the medical term is actually an infantilising term :(

SupermatchGame - nobody on here has misgendered Jaycee - if it has happened, the posts would have quite rightly been reported and deleted as abuse. Jaycee, I'm sure, is referring to FWR members using sex-based language in general discourse - as will obviously be the case on a feminist forum where women are discussing their sex-based rights.

Well jaycee I bet you are glad super has told you what you are allowed to think and how you are allowed to feel.

Remember now you are a woman you aren't allowed to set your own boundaries.

RosenbergW: It is not verbal abuse or hateful speech to notice a person's sex and refer to them that way. It has been normal probably as long as we have been speaking.

What planet are you on that this is classed as verbal abuse? I wish my life had been as privileged as yours.

You know nothing about my life. The legal system and society decides what is abuse, not me.

It was once normal to criminalise homosexuality. It was once normal to enslave black people.

Do you not get that society is constantly evolving and progressing? What was once considered normal, isn't any longer.

You can frame it any way you like Rosenberg. Misgendering someone will get you fired from the workplace. It is contrary to the Equality act. It is ignorant. You do not represent most women. You do not even speak for most feminists.

I'm on planet earth. But what century are you in?

What a total knob.

I smell MRA.

Trousersdontmakemeaman We don't refer to Jaycee as he, we love Jaycee here, she's a good friend, and no one approves of you speaking to her like that here. You are the one bullying there mate. You.

I didn't say you did refer to her as that. But there are plenty here who would. You only have to read the Spartacus thread to see that. And that is not ok. And it's not ok to permit or overlook it - as Jaycee seemed prepared to do.

Jaycee know's what we think. You haven't a fucking clue, and you are too busy telling us what we should be thinking that not one word will get through. We know what century you are from.

LangCleg SupermatchGame - nobody on here has misgendered Jaycee - if it has happened, the posts would have quite rightly been reported and deleted as abuse. Jaycee, I'm sure, is referring to FWR members using sex-based language in general discourse - as will obviously be the case on a feminist forum where women are discussing their sex-based rights.

I didn't say anyone had. But if you read Jaycee's posts you will see she said it didn't matter if she was personally misgendered here. And it does matter.

But there are those on this form that do not include transitioned women (m to f) in that category as having their sex-based rights as legally female.

You feel it is not OK to call a male bodied person "him" if that person wishes to be called "her".

Other people feel it is not OK to be required to call a male bodied person "her" because it is a lie.

Why is one point of view more valid than the other?

Are you telling Jaycee now that you decide what matters?

When they go low we go high

Run your question is a good one.

I haven't told anyone what to think. I have restated the legal position. We can all think what we like. But in real life you can't say it. Why are you resorting to unpleasant personal comments?

goo.gl/images/rYgJuQ